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November 22, 2007


Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Marcy!

And go big kitties, go!


EW, Did you watch the premier of the Frank Caliendo show on TBS Tuesday? He's got to be the best impressionist around. Nails fifty or so celebrities, including John Madden's crush on Brett Favre.

"Brett, I wrote you a poem."


No, I didn't. But yeah, lots of guys have crushes on Brett. Imagine what Tweety would do with him, if only he (Tweety) were man enough to watch football.

At the risk of being banned :)

Go Pack Go! (sorry, I'm a season ticket holder)


No banning. I love the Packers. But it's Thanksgiving and I'm in MI, I gotta root for the Lions. We Michiganders can't digest turkey, you see, unless we undergo a feeling of futility. Something about our digestive tract, I think.

Happy Thanksgiving to Marcy, Mr. Wheel and McCaffrey.

FWIW, I can't get the button in the Planter's box to darken so I can vote.

Lions try living up to 1962

"DETROIT -- A picture hanging outside the locker room of the Lions' practice facility in Allen Park frames a special moment in time. It depicts an overpowering display of defensive dominance on Thanksgiving Day in 1962.

Bart Starr, the Packers' Hall of Fame quarterback, is surrounded by a group of charging, swarming defenders. Starr is helpless, with no protective pocket of blockers near him.

Starr went down on that play and was sacked 10 more times as the Lions atoned for a loss to the Packers earlier in the season with a 26-14 victory at Tiger Stadium. [...]"

That was the only game the Packers lost in '62 and most of the players have said that was Lombardi's greatest team.

Marcy, I think Les Miles would be a lousy choice to replace Carr. I've heard his press conferences are a joke. He makes Casey Stengel sound clear. LSU is a sewer. Less than half their football players graduate. Of those that do graduate, many don't have a marketable degree. My guess is that a lot of NFL coaches would be interested in the Michigan job and high school kids want to play on Sundays. NFL credentials really help in recruiting players and assistant coaches. Gruden's been mentioned, I'm not high on Chuckie. Bill Belichick hired Kirk Ferentz as his offensive line coach in Cleveland. Ferentz can't recruit at Iowa, but I think he would be terrific at Michigan. I don't think it will happen just because Iowa has been down the last few years. FWIW, hiring John Beilein hire was a great move imvho. The guy is a really good basketball coach. Whether he can out recruit Izzo is the question.

Happy Thanksgiving emptywheel! But I have to go with Brett...Go Packers!

There will be no trash to talk today. The question is where Dallas-New York will rank in the biggest blowouts in the history of the NFL.

Vegas has the Jets a 14 point underdog today. The Eagles are a 22.5 dog Sunday night against the Pats. Provided the Pats stay health, the record might be set when they play the Dolphins. I'm sure Belechick is still angry at Shula for his comments about cheating.

Noonan is my new hero!!!! I really want to go to a game at Lambeau Field. OK, enough about me. I really came by to wish one and all of the fine folks here, including our wonderful hostess, a Happy Thanksgiving. Yes, that includes our own lovable troll, at least the original version of her; and I suppose we should all say "Hi" to the NSA, since they are clearly watching. Hmmm, Brett Favre - 30th ranked pass defense? Heh heh. That is indeed a hard one EW, but I think I'll roll with Favre. We'll try to get that "feeling of futility" instilled early for ya so you can blissfully chow down! Again, a most Happy Thanksgiving to literally the best and brightest on the toobz. GO PACK!!

fans, short for fanatics. I am still a rooting for the leo's. I respect favre, but I still want to see him blasted into retirement by our front four, or three, or whatever we are playing today.

For bmaz and all Packer fans is the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's preview:

NO RUN: The Lions rushed for 147, 119 and 130 yards in Weeks 6-8, then for minus-18 and 25 in Weeks 9-10. A defensive coach for a recent Lions' opponent said he understood why RB Kevin Jones was upset. "I don't know why he (offensive coordinator Mike Martz) doesn't hand off to that guy more," the coach said. "But he had Marshall (Faulk) and a lot of games he didn't hand it to him." The Lions rush on 32.6% of their plays, the lowest ratio in the league. "Mike Martz isn't committed to it," the coach said. "It's all about the pass route that will work. It always has been. It's about throwing the ball, and he has won. But that isn't (Rod) Marinelli's background. That's effort, toughness, run the ball."

SO-SO DEBUT: WR Calvin Johnson, the second pick in the draft, hurt his back in Week 3, sat out Week 4 and has been bothered by it ever since. "His problem is his back is all tightened up so he can't adjust to a lot of balls," an executive in personnel for a recent Lions' foe said. "But he can go inside and catch it with anybody." Johnson has flashed his remarkable ability but still ranks a distant fourth among Lions' wide receivers in receptions. "Calvin Johnson creates a lot of problems," another scout said. "I think the back bothers him more than they probably let on." Tight coverage by CBs Charles Woodson and Al Harris could disrupt Johnson and Roy Williams. "Both those guys struggle against press coverage," an opposing defensive coach said. "When you make a long-limbed receiver stop and re-start, it's to your advantage. When you let them off the line clean and they get a head of steam going, you're in trouble. Roy Williams is like a young Randy Moss type. When he wasn't getting the ball he was just coming off gingerly. That's a little bit the same with Roy."

BIG MAN BACK: NT Shaun Rogers sat out the Week 14 meeting at Lambeau Field a year ago after having undergone arthroscopic knee surgery. He's back now and hasn't missed a practice all season. "He can dominate," one scout said. "But since he got hurt last year he hasn't been in the greatest shape." Rogers has dominated some teams but generally doesn't play more than 40 snaps a game. That's 10 or so less than he did in getting after the Packers a few years ago. "On the third play last week he was out of the game already," another scout said. "Toward the end he looked like he was going to die. Comes out a lot. Flash guy. Couple plays here and there and that's about all he's got in the tank."

TOUGH GUY: Jon Kitna started two games against Green Bay last season, compiling a 96.0 passer rating in Week 3 at Ford Field (a 31-24 loss) and a 42.9 rating in Week 14 at Lambeau Field (a 17-9 loss). His current rating is 90.2. "There's obviously a lot better out there but there's sure a lot worse," an opposing defensive coach said. "He's shown to be a real adequate middle-of-the-NFL type quarterback. He knows what he's looking for and he gets the ball out of his hands for the most part." Kitna has been sacked 40 times after going down 63 times a year ago. "Most teams in the NFL do not drop deep," the coach said. "That's why he's getting sacked so much. The quarterback is trained there to stay in that pocket until the route develops. He's chastised when he leaves too early. He's doing what he's told and taking a beating."

SAME OLD STORY: The Lions have had new starters at either two or three positions on the offensive line. They also changed coaches, firing Larry Beightol and replacing him with Jim Colletto. Still, the unit struggles. "Probably the biggest weakness on their team is the offensive line," one scout said. "I don't think any of them are world-beaters." Another scout evaluated the starters in this fashion: "I don't think (Jeff) Backus is a true left tackle. They're glad just to be getting by with him. (Edwin) Mulitalo is a box-area mauler. (Dominic Raiola) is their leader just because he's smart and tough and he gets them all fired up. But talent-wise, he doesn't have a lot going for him."

Bob McGinn

BOB McGINN: If the Packers don't register at least 10 sacks in two games against the Lions something will be very wrong indeed. The Lions can't pass protect but Jon Kitna will be setting up deep all day long. The Packers will score 28 or more given the Lions' porous secondary. It just depends if the Lions can score enough to keep it respectable.

Per bmaz, this community mean a great deal to me. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Thanks for the rundown Boo. Jeebus, I had not been up long earlier (hey, it's the west, what do you want?) and forgot to mention the REALLY BIG GAME TODAY. I am a total moron most of the time, even I recognize that. So, the big game today is being played in literally my back yard (about 5 miles away) at Sun Devil Stadium. ASU v. USC. Not much on the table, the Pac-10 championship, berth in the Rose Bowl and at least a possible shot at the BCS title game for ASU. GO DEVILS!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving Marcy and everyone. Gotta go with the Pack 'cause my sister lives in Madison and it's her religion. But either way, it's a win-win since you're a Michugunah.

On this Thanksgiving Day, I would like to give thanks to emptywheel and all the posters and commenters at The Next Hurrah for keeping us well informed and thinking straight (except for the trolls, of course, but they are always good for comic relief)

Go Sun Devils! Put the exclamation point on the story of USC's season - 'Over-rated!'

Not pulling for Favre today would be like not going to a BB King show next door - why miss a glimpse of a living legend still performing at the level of excellence?

EW, thank you for another year of saving democracy - imvho, you are the living embodiment of the Spirit of Freedom for which the Founders sought to provide a good and just Government.

Thank you, also, to my fellow commenters - I've learned a lot from you dirty fucking hippies!

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Happy Turkeyday to all!

and to all the turkeys in DC - get stuffed, please!

Happy Happy to all you wonderful commenters and especially to the ones we comment to. You make my life so much more bearable knowing you are out there in the world. Thanks for sharing all your brain power.

I did my graduate work at the U of Michigan, but I grew up in Wisconsin during the Vince Lombardi-Bart Starr era. So my loyalty has to be with the Packers today. Favre is having a career year, and he can't have much more time to make it to the Big Dance.

Bob in HI

Jeez, I'm feeling totally out of it. I didn't even follow Boise State (in all their illustrious new glory) this year... but I'm enormously heartened to know that there's an OSU coach's offspring commenting on these threads from time to time. And I try to be gracious while overlooking bmaz's irrational support for ASU ;-)

Grateful to you all, and want to put in a good word for Freepatriot's passionate Thread Hygiene efforts. The passion, insights, general decency, and curiosity around here are remarkable. Sometimes I feel like I finally got into the Graduate Seminar Of My Dreams when I arrive here. I rather suspect that even some of our NSA visitors enjoy the occasional guffaw.

Best to all commenters.
As one of the Designated Drivers at my affair this year, please drive safely if you're traveling, y'all!

EW and TNH ownership, deepest gratitude.
I look forward to 'seconds and third helpings' on Scandal, and super-sized servings of Venalty Exposed, in coming months.


I don't sense enough "trash" in our football talk? Let's put it out in the form of the high-minded debate that typifies discussions here at TNH

BIRT that the rest of the NFL (Ie the Pack, Colts, Cowboys) is as to the mighty, all-powerful paradigm of football excellence New England Patriots as the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters. Discuss!

Meadowlark Lemon had the Generals' signals, too.

There is a reason that the Pats play in some amorphous suburb known as Foxboro, while the Pack play in TITLETOWN. Brady is good, but I believe someone else holds all the records for a quarterback in the NFL; oh yeah, his name is Favre. The owner of the Patriots does bear a striking resemblance to Red Klotz though.

31/41, 381 yds, 3 td. Looks like Favre barely edged out Kitna for the day.

Agh. This feels sooo familiar. Overcast skies, first snow on the ground, deer hunting stories shared, cold lager in hand, smell of cinnamon and sage in the air, and the Lions lose.

Welcome to Thanksgiving in Michigan.

Wish you all plenty to be thankful for this day, whether in Michigan or elsewhere, more beer for my neighbors to the south in A2, and minced turkey gizzards for the Millenial Lab.

Well, I fear the worst, but am off to the ASU-USC game anyway. Enjoy your desserts and second helpings!

Bmaz - Green Bay is TITLE TOWN? There is a distinct possibility that by June 2008, the champions for baseball, pro football and pro basketball will be in the Hub - now when did that happen before? Oh yeah, in BOSTON in 2004, when the Super Bowl champs and World Series champs were in Boston, along with the most NBA championships! If Brady and Moss are able to play together as long as Montana/Young and Rice, it wont be long before Favre is the former record holder!

Sorry for not responding sooner to your taunting, but today is a work day in Canada! :)

Radiofreewill - you are obviously a member of the 1972 Dolphins, judging by your remark! :)

Well, the Pack did take out the Lions, but who the heck were the Cowboys playing?

Ishmael - I don't know why, but when I look at the Pats I always think 'Guards' in The Longest Yard!

RFW - you have to look at the Pats (and the Sawx) from my perspective - I was cheering for the Pats when they had the cool logo, not the death-head version that is the only thing that disturbs me about the current edition of the team - I remember Steve Grogan handing off to Sam (Bam) Cunningham, Tony Eason getting massacred by the 85 Bears, Bledsoe's Pats falling to Favre's Pack, - all the success and Super Bowls of the Brady era are all karma now for now!

As a Redskins fan, I know how you feel - without the redemption!

Beantown is a great sports city! With the kind of fan support you guys have, there will always be champions in Boston!

I got a late entry for the trash talker's derby

since I'm late, I''ll try to make up for it in Volumn


(See, it's got three exclamation points, I usually ain't that loud around here)

it was my first thanksgiving without Mom (a Wisconsin native) but I spent the day with two other cheesers, so I got an earfull about Favre anyway

Since Romo is a younger version of Favre (and better looking too) I'm looking forward to a little enjoyable revenge come thursday next

I love watching Romo play. The guy is like a "Three Stooges" show, all by himself, and he wins anyway. how could you not like that ???

and to clear a few things up, to all those bostonians (small b to match the town) who may have grown a little cocky over their recent success, remember that while your baseball team was serially failing to win the world series for 80 some years, and for the first forty years while your football franchise was a joke, the City of Green Bay was winning 12 NFL Championships, including THREE IN A ROW TWICE. so when you idiot bostonians decide to tempt karma by bragging on your recent success, you should keep in mind the EIGHTY YEAR DROUGHT when karma loved yanking your chain. Karma is a bitch, and you guys should know that. Green Bay is TITLE TOWN, and not city with an EIGHTY YEAR LOSING STREAK can even be considered competition for the moniker besides, your losing streak wasn't even the longest streak in existence, although you wouldn't know it from the amount of WHINING you guys used to do about it

and Yeah, I DID call you a bunch of whiners

and for all you Wisconsinite cheesehead fans who might be thinking of getting swelled heads cuz I said that, just remember; you guys are just a few miles from being a bunch of hosers, so TAKE OFF, EEH. Change a few words in an old treaty and you guys could be a bunch of Canadians (which would mean you all missed work today and now you're fired)

And you Michiganites should be warned, if we ever decide to give Wisconsin back to Canada, you guys are next

is there anybody else I didn't piss off ???

anyway, Happy Thanksgiving from California, the Golden State (yes, we're better than you)

(wink and a smile)

Freepatriot -

All I can say is, New England 48, Dallas 27!

Happy Thanksgiving, an honor to be "trashed" by one of the best! :)

If only my new BFF Jodi would offer some trash talk, this thread could be complete. So sad.

I am not particularly a football fan, but Green Bay is the team I like the best. It is the only citizen-owned NFL team. All the others have some greedy private or corporate owners who will change cities at the drop of a hat, or at least at a big offer to move with city government subsidies elsewhere.

How many changes can you name since, say, 1970?

Only in Green Bay do fans have the right to consider the team as "their" team.

Hi freepatriot, sorry about your Mom. Good to have you back.

freepatriot -- you could give us to Canada for Christmas, no objections on my part. ;-)

But I'll bet Canucks draw the line at taking the Lions.

A few notes from TNH's Senior Desert Gridiron Correspondent :

1) USC is really good. Having John David Booty hurt, and then out all together, earlier in the season really hurt them. Now that he is healthy, if there is a better college football team in America than I saw last night, I have not seen evidence of it. Maybe LSU. I dunno; they are real good...

2) ASU can't pass protect for shit. It has been a problem for them all year, but against a defense like USC's, it was turn out the lights cause the party's over. Given a good offensive line with decent pass protection, ASU would have been every bit as good as USC, which is saying a whole lot. Their record is no fluke; ASU is very good and the future looks bright. Dennis Erickson is a big time coach; what a difference that makes in a program. But the bottom line is if you can't keep your offense on the field, and your defense off the field; you are done. ASU got done up.

3) AS soon as Cheney gets that space laser weapon up and going, it should be used on the USC band immediately. I haven't been to a live USC game in 6 or 7 years; you forget how annoying that band is. If I hear that fucking Tommy Trojan song one more time, I will go postal......

Mel Kiper agrees with you:

"Caught our main man Mel Kiper on ESPN this morning. Usually, we enjoy his buffoonery, but for some reason, his, “USC is the best team in the country right now” knee-jerk reaction to last night’s 44-24 destruction of an overrated ASU team annoyed us. Mel, you’re better than that."


The biglead predicted the Yankees would hire Don Mattingly, so he's far from infallible.

FWIW, USC graduates 55% of its football players, LSU is at 49% and Jeff Tedford at California only graduates about 44%.

We will have to see how they finish against Arizona and in whatever bowl game they end up in; but even after last night, I don't think ASU is overrated. I was there, and I am here to tell you, nobody would have beaten USC last night. And ASU was every bit as good as USC except for the pass protection. That is a huge "except for" though, and it killed the Devils against USC. "thebiglead" is full of it; these are two very, very good football teams, neither one is overrated. Last night, USC was just markedly better. "thebiglead" sounds like one of those dopey morons that thought Michigan should have been playing Ohio State in the BCS Championship game last year "because they were the two best teams in the country". Ha. Neither one of them should have been in that game, and the results posted by Florida and USC against OSU and UM, respectively, showed just that pretty clearly. This is just more of the Pac-10 bias I was bitching about early in the season. The scary thing is, Oregon is as good, if not better, that both USC and ASU if THEIR quarterback, Dennis Dickson, had not have been injured. When the SEC, Big 10, or Big 12 (or whatever their current name is) has a bunch of really good, tough teams that rough each other up, that shows how strong they are; when it happens in the Pac-10 it shows how "overrated" they are. What a crock of dung.

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