Orrin Hatch's Intelligence Question

by emptywheel

I didn't get to watch big chunks of the hearings so I had to read through the transcripts this morning. And I wanted to call attention to some interesting details. In this post, let's look at an odd interchange between Hatch and Gonzales. The Senator is setting up the patented Scooter Libby defense for AGAG, rehearsing how many Very Important things AGAG does, perhaps to win him sympathy (I hope to return to a post on Hatch's interesting role as the lone hold-out in AGAG support). He walks through how involved AGAG is with the White House. And then he portrays AGAG as centrally involved in matters of intelligence:

HATCH: You spend a lot of time down at the White House as well, don't you?

GONZALES: I don't spend as much time as I used to spend at the White House.

[snip]

HATCH: The president wants to see you, you're on call, right?

GONZALES: Of course.

HATCH: You go to intelligence meetings, right?

GONZALES: That is correct.

HATCH: Among various intelligence factions of government... [ed. note the word choice: "intelligence factions"]

GONZALES: Yes. We...

HATCH: ... for important meetings?

GONZALES: From time to time, we do have meetings relating to threats to United States interests overseas and, of course, threats to the homeland.

HATCH: In fact, I've been in some of those intelligence meetings with you, in the secure room in the White House, right?

GONZALES: We do have intelligence briefings from time to time, in the Situation Room, yes, sir.

Now, I think I understand what Hatch is trying to do here--as I said, it's the Very Important man defense which--according to some Republicans, I guess--absolves you of all legal crime and requirements for basic competence. But it raises two questions. How many intelligence meetings is AGAG sitting in on? I understand he needs to understand what happens to FISA, NSLs, and FBI investigations (though his interest on most parts should relate to oversight issues). But is his role in these intelligence briefings passing beyond the role of chief law enforcement officer and into the realm of intelligence policy? I don't know where that line should be drawn, but given AGAG's clear partisan bias and his apparent incomptence, I'd like to know precisely what role AGAG was playing in these meetings.

And while we're discussing that question, what role was Orrin Hatch playing at these Situation Room meetings? Hatch was not in the Gang of Eight (the minority and majority leaders of the House and Senate, plus the minority and majority leaders of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees who are read into the most classified intelligence activities). Yes, he's on both the Intelligence and Judiciary committees--but so are Senators Feingold and Feinstein. So are these Situation Room meetings something just for wingnuts from UT, or is it something else?

Comments

[lizard]

I would assume that, included under the label "intelligence matters" is the delicate matter of how these people intend to stay out of jail when their malfeasance, outright lawbreaking and contempt for both morality and law become common knowledge. Given Torquemada Gonzales's role in the developement of the policies for which there will eventually be a reconing, having him in on the meetings seems wise, at least from the perspective of the Bush Cult.

I am starting to think of him as "Consigliere to the Bubble", translating those difficult, quaint legal concepts (binding treaties, Habeas Corpus) in terms that Bush can easily ignore. You know, a cross between a mafia lawyer and a bored professor teaching the jocks about civics and demanding a standard that won't threaten athletic scholorships.

[Mimikatz]

Maybe it was meetings where they sat around and went through the intercepts of Dems and anyone else perceived to be an enemy. Maybe he misspoke and meant "oppo research" instead.

[SaltinWound]

It smells to me like another play for privilege and confidentiality (not releasing records): "No one would expect the White House to release any information about what goes on in the sanctity of the Situation Room."

[bmaz]

I wonder if we sometimes give to much credit to Gonzales. The man just doesn't seem that bright, and appears to be a tactical idiot that doesn't think on his feet very well. If Gonzales is involved in any of the high level of intel or policy discussions, there is a good chance that they need an enabling tool or scapegoat. For all the credit he gets as abu-Torture etc., he likely didn't devise any of it; it came out of Addington and Cheney. Just heard on CNN that GOP #3 Rep. Adam Putnam just called for Gonzales' ouster.

[tomj]

I'm glad that somebody else caught this. I sort of tuned out when Senator Hatch started speaking, but then I'm hearing this blather coming out of his mouth, and I can just sense that Alberto is wishing the Senator would shut the fuck up. "Uhhh, yeah, me and the prez are BFF!" Maybe they get together in the situation room and throw darts at a board of USA names. Maybe they pass notes that need to be slipped into the Patriot Act while nobody is looking. Seems like Hatch is going out of his way to tell everyone where the gang meets, just in case we haven't figured it out yet. So maybe the committee can call Hatch and check his memory of those meetings.

[lizard]

Al ain't no idiot, folks. A careful parsing of his language reveals that he knows full well what he is presiding over, and is working hard to both lie his ass off and prevent a perjury/lying to congress charge. He KNOWS how stupid "I can't recall that" makes him sound, but he CANNOT say "No, that didn't happen" because generally whatever he was asked about DID happen, so his only lying answer must be "I don't recall that". It is a near-transparent fig leaf to hide behind, but it is better than telling the truth (because Karl and George don't WANT to be indicted) and it is better than outright denial.

[bmaz]

Lizard - I agree with everything you say with the exception of the "Al ain't no idiot" bit. Al is definitely in CYA overdrive as you say; but if he is no idiot, he certainly is not very far away from it.

[lizard]

bmaz - Perhaps I am delusional, or perhaps it is simply that I don't WANT to believe that torture can be redefined into acceptability, the entire justice department can be subverted, the right of habeas corpus damaged, and the Geneva Convention repeatedly, savagely and blatantly disregarded and curtailed, by an idiot. I prefer to see him as an evil genius than a toady with the wattage of an old Zippo.

Also, it is very dangerous to underestimate people like him. Remember Dan Quail?

[bmaz]

Lizard - Yeah. I've met Dan Quail. He lives here in Phoenix, and while he is far better than a lot of people made him out to be, he is not likely to pick up any Einstein or Newton awards either. As to Gonzales, that is my point. He isn't the guy behind all of the ills you list; Addington/Cheney along with John Yoo were the masterminds in my estimation.

[Jodi]

Gonzales, is a tool, who will seek to do what the boss wants. If he has enough time he can do pretty good.

He is not very good for impromptu news conferences. Or maybe he was having a bad day.

[Neil]

Abu Gonzalez wrote the torture memo and found the Geneva Conventions quaint. At some point, the person who renders the opinion and gives the order the authority of legal cover must be held accountable, even if he's been a loyal tool all along.

Gonzalez has lied hundreds of times to Congress. I hope he gets caught in a whopper of substance and goes to jail for a long time. He has no integrity.

[jasond]

do you know agag in translation is gog as in the last battle gog nd magog. hhmmmm... more of this prophecy read i must