The Next Open Thread: Guilty

by DemFromCT

As emptywheel prepares a more comprehensive and intelligent post, here's a chance to weigh in on the hard fact that I. Lewis Libby is now a convicted felon.

The jury deliberated for 10 days before handing up their verdict to Federal Judge Reggie B. Walton this morning, ending one of Washington’s most closely watched trials of recent years. Mr. Libby, 56, could theoretically face more than two decades in prison, but as a first offender he will almost surely get a much lighter penalty.

Mr. Libby appeared composed as the verdict was read. He was then taken to be photographed and fingerprinted as a convicted felon. He will remain free on his own recognizance until sentencing, scheduled by Judge Walton for June 5.

I'll leave further comments to you, the experts on public opinion.

Comments

[Bustednuckles]

CONGRATULATIONS MARCY!!! YOU HAVE MADE THE HISTORY BOOKS!!!!!

[Pete]

Justice!

BTW - HuffingtonPost is reporting that Fitz said that he does not expect to file any more charges.

[Jodi]

All.

Kind of anticlimatic once it is over...

The Monday Morning game analyzers will have a spurt of activity.

Sentencing in June.
Motion for new trial.
Appeals.
Maybe a little excitement in Jan 2009.

I am sure many here will enjoy for a little while, what previously they would have considered a mere pittance, a few crumbs, compared to their hopes a year or so ago, but

the anticipation is over, the fun is done.

-- Jodi

[Jodi]

Pete,

time to go home.

[Jodi]

DemFromCT,

in case you missed my statement over in "Shorter Judge Walton: ..."
I enjoyed talking to you. You were a breath of fresh air. I hope FluWikie does well. I told my dad about it.

I will pray for your Marine.

Semper Fi

--- Jodi

[freepatriot]

guess it wasn't so fucking complicated or hard for the jurors to understand after all, was it tokyo jodi ???

[Kagro X]

I note that the "administration's" line on the fired U.S. Attorneys is exactly the same as it was on the Libby case -- even as the jury deliberated (see Victoria Toensing). That is, it's all "routine."

Leaks happen. Firings happen. They all just... happen. In Washington, DC. Which George W. Bush was going to change. And instead made worse.

Surprise!

And in another shocker, Jodi is now objectively wrong. The stupid along the way was just a happy bonus for our entertainment, it seems.

[Ducktape]

Marci, you did one totally fantastic job (with the able help of Jane, Christie, Pach, and the other dogs). The FDL coverage was the go-to coverage for the entire trial.

I could say a lot more, but y'all did ALL bloggers proud, and showed just how incredibly valuable "non-traditional media" can be. I'm bringing my copy of the book to YK in Chicago for your autograph!

Ducktape

[vachon]

I'm glad and sad at the same time. I'm glad that Cheney, et al, were exposed for the scurrying cowards they really are. I'm sad that so many lives are so damaged now. The troops included.

Fitzgerald makes me believe in the system again, if ever so briefly. I am grateful.

[greenhouse]

Hey Tokyo Jodi

You played yourself...
Ain't nobody else's fault, you played yourself

Now stick that in your fake doctorate cap!

[katie Jensen]

Okay so let's discuss: do we contact our senators and congressmen (Hagel will probably go for it given some of his statements...but he's still a republican in sheeps clothing despite his comments..note his votes) and urge a congressional investigation?? Or do we wait for Libby to roll over?? (which seems unlikely). What do we do to continue the fight to uncover the whole conspiracy that put our soldiers in harms way in a war that was avoidable??

Can we start impeachment proceedings, how do we get to Pelosi?? There needs to be consequences and truth about how the war began. I personally would not want any relative of mine in harms way because the president lied. I mean that would be like me saying..."that man just tried to kill me, kill him!! kill him!!"...and my husband shoots. Our soldiers are the innocent husband killing under false pretenses and the President is the liar who says "we have to kill them, they are trying to kill us." Yep, now there are, but they weren't back then, nor was Iran. Lordy, Jodi you've got some kind of denial going. We are talking about the difference between murder and self defense. Period. This president sent our loved ones to a war that was murderous. Killing babies, mothers, children and they lied about the evidence so that we would all condone the war. There is nothing on this earth more serious or important that this...and today a part of that story was validated...the rest of the truth is yet to come..What is our part now?

[creeper]

As much as we wanted to see a verdict in this case, it's unfortunate timing that it comes on the day of testimony by the fired US attorneys. What they have to say may well get lost in the clamor.

Does anyone know if testimony by those attorneys will continue tomorrow? Maybe by then the fallout from Libby will have settled a bit and attention can focus on this next investigation of crime by the rethugs.

[Dismayed]

The good news, Jodi. Crow meat is organic. And it goes well with sour grapes!

[creeper]

Jodi,

"Crumbs"??? Guilty on four out of five is "crumbs"?

Better than kool-aid.

Darlin', we're just getting started.

[Jodi]

Katie,

I sympathize with you more than you know on the war. I would applaud if Bush and Cheney were impeached for their conduct of the war.

As for Politicians lying or stretching the truth to get their way, well I don't think that there is any traction in doing anything about that. If there were, the first requirement for being President would be that the person couldn't be a politican.

Enjoy your small victory before it disappears into the murky recesses of our legal system.

I had predicted that Libby would be found guilty by this jury, and it has happened. I have predicted that he will be sentenced to 2 or 3 years. It now turns out the Federal Guidelines for this crime are 1 1/2 to 3 years.

I now predict that Libby will be appealing until sometime in January 2009.

As for the rest of the "rascals" I have posted before the phone number, email address, and the mailing address of the DOJ. If you or anyone else have any information that can cause Fitz to reopen the investigation, then have at it.

I enjoyed talking to you Katie, and Sara as well. I wish you well with your Social Services work.

--- Jodi

[Warren]

You know Libby's going to be pardoned, don't you?

[MarkC]

I agree that we need concrete ideas in response to Katie's excellent "a way forward" post. LHP says that congress can use GJ testimony by making a motion under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 6(g), and in general there seems to be enough on the public record to hold hearings on the "underlying crimes." Perhaps this would build public pressure for a reinstatement of the "special prosecutor" (tailored in light of the Starr fiasco), or Congress can use its supbpeona power? I think that someone needs to focus this issue for those of us who did not expect the Fitzgerald path to suddenly end. At a nice vista, mind you, but not nearly our final destination.

[katie Jensen]

Thanks Jodi...Let's join hands then, and fight to ask our senators and congressmen to impeach Bushco for the lead up to the war. Let's join forces on this one. Our loved ones and many innocent people we don't know are dying in a war that did not need to be.

Libby lied about outting the agent to protect Bush/Cheney from being caught in their lies to the nation. Joe and Valerie Wilson were only trying to do their civic duty to inform the public before this war became a disaster that the president had not been honest about his statements to the public.

Let's ban together and follow through with the morals that make america great!!

Libby will not be pardoned until the civil trial is dismissed or over, because to be pardoned is an admission of guilt. I would guess that a pardon could be used against him in the civil suit. If he is pardoned it will not happen for several years and after many appeals. The important point is to keep the truth about what Bush/Cheney did and said and what was testified to, by the witnesses in the trial. Truly an indictment of this administration.

All I want is peace...for the killing of innocent people, the lies and rationalizations, the horrible war profiteering to end. That's all. I want our integrity restored and today was a small victory.

I also have been following the firings of the Attorney generals...and the torture charges in germany. We must clear our name and reputation by being the americans we are without fearing the attacks by this administration. THey will lie and attack to protect themselves from the truth...we must settle for nothing less from our representatives who clearly fear the blow back that comes when the administration is confronted.

Okay, Jodi...it seems we are on the same team here. Let's end this unneccessary war. There is a time for all things, but this wasn't it. And now it's time for America to make ammends which has far more impact toward ending terrorism that war does...either way the violence will not end for years to come, but compassion and amends go to the long end in much stronger fashion than the way that violence perpetuates itself in terrorism, and in the lives of those who return home for many years to come.

[greenhouse]

Jodi,

I guess this means goodbye, right? I guess there's nothing left for us to say to each other at this point... except...

See ya beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeotch

[freepatriot]

so where is scooter's law license issued ???

it's time to begin the process of DISBARRING this criminal fucker

four times guilty of federal felonies, (under color of authority, btw)

that should do it

I can't wait for the upcomming post with the title stolen from that old time favorite "He's In The Jail House Now"

[Nan]

A special thanks for all the time and mental energy you have put into this case, EW! You're great - and I look forward to reading your next post!
Nan

[Dismayed]

Does anyone know what are the statutes of limitations on these types of crimes. (To include outing and CIA operative) It has occurred to me that the Libby trial could have been something of a placeholder as well at the beginning of a longer investigation. If I were Fitz I would want to be filing charges against the big fish just after Bush left office. (which is not THAT far away at this point) I mean, clearly Fitz knows damn well what Cheney and co did, and he naturally wants to procecute it. If I were him I would have a strategy of keeping the widow open and hitting Dick once he's out of office, and once a pardon would not be possible from his boss.

Pie in the sky, most likely, but easy enough to imagine how this could be a viable strategy.

[freepatriot]

Hi Kagro, just wanted to note that I've been saying that Tokyo jodi was here to provide comic amusement for months

greenhouse glad to see you're on board with the program of ridiculing tokyo jodi (maybe WORMTOUNGE would be a better title)

to Katie Jensen, I've already talked to my own Congressman's flunky, and he got an earful. Unfortunatly my Senators are both a little busy right now (so they can wait to get their earful)

and finally to Warren, a pardon for scooter ??? nope, I don't see that one on the horizon. I've already bitched to my congressman about kkkarl rove's involvement in this case of institutional treason. A pardoned scooter libby would be "MEAT ON THE PLATE" for any investigator with a subpeona. Go read about Congressman Waxman, and the powers Mr. Waxman is afforded by virtue of his Chairmanship (short story, Mr Waxman can issue subpeonas just by signing his name to them)

to everybody else in general, (except tokyo jodi the wormtounge), try not to celebrate to early. This isn't over.

This isn't the end

this isn't the beginning of the end

this is only the end of the beginning

Oh, and last but not least, to emptywheel, you're the greatest. I never lost faith in the system, mostly because of you and the people around you. I've been behind you since the early days a DKOS (I'm your biggest fan) I want to thank you for all you've done, and if you would, pass my thanks on to REDD, Jane and Jerlyn

[freepatriot]

Hi Dismayed, here's a hint. If it can be tied to the RICO Statute thru 7 conecting hurdles, this case can be tried for up to ten years after the date of the crime

RICO is a vicious law, and it has a 10 year statute of limitation, which overrules any other included statute of limitation.

It works in Criminal and Civil law

karma is a bitch, and RICO works for her

[greenhouse]

Indeed Mr. Free, I'm the one who started calling Jodi -- Tokyo

[P J Evans]

correction up above: that should be 6(a)(iii), not 6(g).

[smiley]

I think Libby's a flight risk. In the sense that any plane he's on is at risk of getting shot down.

What is this "on his own recognizance" bullshit? Shouldn't he be in federal prison, for his own protection?

And as for Babs Comstock: known by the company you keep much, Barbara dear? Good luck spinning "Managed PR Defense of Convicted Felon Scooter Libby" on your resume.

[P J Evans]

and re-corrected (too many windows, the pieces are escaping me) 'e', not 'a'. IANAL....

Smiley: first conviction, non-violent crime. Also he's been booked, so his prints are on record now.

[smiley]

PJ: I know, but I can dream, can't I?

Wikipedia has been dreaming too, according to BoingBoing.

Mwah ha ha! You want public opinion? You got it: the American public (on the internet) wants Scooter Libby to get raped and die in prison.

[Melanie]

creeper,

The USAs testimony continues tomorrow on the House side.

[greenhouse]

Katie, Jodi's not with you. She only wants Bush's head because we're losing. In other words, for her it's ok for the prez to have lied so that thus far over 3,000 GIs could die, but only if we we're winning.

[katie Jensen]

It's my understanding (no link 'cause I am not a professional blogger..my excuse anyway) is that Fitz has a history of doing just this. I think it was in chicago where he waited until the big dogs were no longer in office and then prosecuted.

I have wondered how the power of bushco would be diminished if that were to occur but because IANAL (just learned what that meant this week, like any 'new' word I am over using but it's fun!!) I don't know what advantages there would be to waiting for after 08.

My thought though is that if congress makes a strong move to impeach Bushco, whether it works or not could truly cause scooter to consider rolling over because it puts his pardon in jeapardy.

Are there considerations nationally since we are in a time of war?? (that's what folks say when I bring this up). My thought is that Bushco is more like a thorn aggravating things than if we were to stand up to him. In my large world view it seems that it decreases the power of the extremist view because it suggests that maybe americans are not as immoral as they think. I think this is the only move that makes sense. I realize that the violence will not stop and extremists will likely not change their minds but I think it decreases their ability to recruit.

I think Fitz winked at congress (as e.w said today) and we need to make sure they wink back.

[Dismayed]

Katie - I learned what IANAL meant some time ago, but then I forgot, but I remember again now.

Free - Ah, yes. RICO. That's a good one and probably applies here, yet I wonder about statutes of limitation for the core crimes. Seems to me each time you question these guys you restart the statute for perjury and obstruction.

My guess is Fitz will let Congress take the lead for a while, pile up the offenses. Then pounce once Bush is out of office. Too hard to go after a sitting VP, plus Bush would pardon Cheney the moment charges were filed.

End of the beginning. I think so too.

[jd]

I've got a question about the Right's response to today's verdict, namely that Libby was convicted despite there being no underlying crime. What I can't figure out is, if no crime was committed, then why lie? Why not say, "yep, I talked to Judy Miller and Tim Russert and Matt Cooper about Valerie Plame. What of it?"

Anybody heard one of Libby's defenders explain this discrepancy?

[Dismayed]

Bullshit for the masses. An argument for the true believers to rally around. Obviously, Obstruction of justice - obstructs. Keeps the system from getting to the underlying crime. That's why it's a crime. They chose to overlook that little detail. Same old parsing (lying) they always do.

[Melanie]

I am not a lawyer.

[hesikastor]

Thanks, Marcy, for your commitment, and your energy, and your knowledge, and your sharp, analytical and retentive mind. Thanks for passing it all on to us, and making it as plain as it will ever be to one of not like mind!

I have learned much from the trial, didn't come in much before that. Still don't know as much as I should, but more than I did. And it was great to watch what you did on the run without time to "reason why, but to do or die."

Looking forward to the book on the trial.

The road goes on.

[al-Fubar]

The long jury deliberation has an interesting amplifier effect. As the days went on with no verdict, Beltway wisdom - based, in a world with so many lawyers, on "typical" courtroom experience - was that acquittal was increasingly likely. Republicans seem shocked, more perhaps than they would have been if the jury had come back after a few hours.

As someone who threw up hands at even trying to follow the detailed analysis of time lines, etc., from emptywheel and the FDL gang, I took heart from the jury's requests for easal and post-its - this was one case where the farther you went into the weeds, the more the prosecution case was strengthened.

Jodi - a lot of our hopes came true even before the verdict. Madam Speaker Pelosi, for example. Bush and the war are discredited, even their defenders largely just going through the motions now. This is just one more brick through the wall.

creeper - today's testimony by the fired USAs is only a start, and it will gain momentum from the verdict.

Remember the very important line we have crossed - one of the top level people in this administration has been found guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, of a crime directly related to administration practices.

[Crazy Horse]

Given the amount of celebratory alcohol consumed by the FDL threads tonight, i'm not waiting for emptywheel's post. Until tomorrow, when i will devour it.

[njr]

from Val and Joe Wilson's page
http://www.wilsonsupport.org/node/313

Melanie Sloan, CREW’s executive director and counsel to the Wilsons stated, “The civil case may provide the American public with its only opportunity to hear directly from Vice President Cheney, Mr. Libby, Mr. Rove and Mr. Armitage about what really took place behind the scenes after Joe Wilson exposed the truth about the administration’s justification for the Iraq war.”

Marcy dear,
can you help us learn next about civil cases?
please?

[whitewidow]

Delurking to tell EW that we are not worthy.

[Bows and scrapes]

Today is a fantastic day! I was reflecting back on the fact that this case is what brought me to the blogosphere. I got hooked on Plamegate and discovered Dkos, Firedoglake and followed you here. It just seems like a lifetime ago. It seemed that the general public would never open their eyes to the lies about the war, the media were hopeless (ok that hasn't changed much), the extent of the corruption was just beginning to be apparent.

Justice is served, with a side of schadenfreude.

I'm disappointed that that the one juror who spoke unintentionally, I assume, furthered the right wing talking points by calling Libby the "fall guy". Even though he was correct in asking, as we have been, "Where's Rove?" Where's Armitage?", etc. The point is Fitz could not make a case due to the obstruction. Libby was no innocent bystander, he was right in there planning the revenge against Wilson.

Marcy, I hope you sleep well tonight knowing that your part in this was not small. And I hope you're not too hungover tomorrow.

Cheers! Merry Fitzmas to all!

[Scooter Libby Convicted Felon]

On his show Chris Matthews talked about the difference between the terms "scapegoat" and "fall guy". Chris said that the term "fall guy" was appropriate because unlike "scapegoat" it does not have the connotation of someone who is innocent.

[Peter Griffin]

So great to watch you during the trial. Great job.

[hauksdottir]

Thank you for typing your fingers off for us... the live-blogging was an incredible view into both what was being said AND the visuals (reactions, fidgets, direction of glances) for those of us who couldn't be there in the Courthouse.

The Watergate Hearings were a long time ago, but this had much of the same feeling... that of exposing the secrecy and machinations of men who want power more than anything, yet wield it so clumsily. We can only hope that our congress-critters will take what Fitzgerald has offered as a starting point, and use their subpoena power to get the rest of the tangles out of the web of deceit.

And congratulations for establishing the nimbleness and effectiveness of truly independent media.

[John Palcewski]

Not 15 minutes after the verdict was announced, Victoria Toensing came on Fox News and said the single not guilty verdict cast the other guilty verdicts into doubt. Her reasoning was mind-bending, with absolutely no relation to the facts of the case. And then came zombie Brit Hume who repeated the lie that Valerie Plame's status as a covert CIA agent has always been in doubt, followed by some rather bizarre tut-tutting that left the impression that an innocent man had just been railroaded by an out-of-control prosecutor. I had to turn the TV off when a Fox News promo said that next up would be Novak.

Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and George Bush knew exactly what was coming. They had their people all lined up for their TV appearances. The spin has begun and it will continue endlessly. It's purpose? Why, pardon, of course. When they're through, they hope the Americun people will DEMAND it. Boy, will they be surprised!

[anatomist]

Don't know if anyone is still reading, but there are two things I don't understand.
1) Why didn't Libby plead guilty? I don't see how this could have played out any worse for the administration politically. When you fall on your sword, you're not supposed to splatter blood all over your comrades.
Only thing I can come up with is the ability to delay via the appeals process till the end of the President's term and pardon, but still don't really see how that is in the administration's interest.
2) Didn't Fitz say at his indictment press conference in regard to possible prosecution under IIPA or the espionage act that conviction of obstruction and perjury would "vindicate the interest". Since Libby clearly did not act solely on his own initiative, and he did not act alone, how is the public's interest fully vindicated if only Libby is indicted and convicted? Again from Fitzgerald, we still do not know if the pitcher intentionally beaned the batter (in the head) or not, we do not even know if the pitcher was Cheney, Bush or Rove. We just know Libby committed a crime in lying about his role. (And as a side benefit, had our suspicions about how the administration and the media work confirmed in a court of law, also thanks to all the work of all the bloggers)
So by not continuing the investigation, is Fitzgerald saying the outing was not in fact a crime, or is it just that if there is a crime he does not believe he can get an indictment or conviction?

[katie jensen]

Boy, it's early in the morning and I am still running on adrenaline from yesterday...ew would be better answering this, but I feel compelled to say that the big problem appears to be the declassification by Bush and Cheney. My understanding is that the new and improved tricky dickey have found the issue of executive privilege offers some cover for them and would force the prosecutor into arguing constitutional issues. If you notice time and time again this is the arguement that keep congress, the senate and now the prosecutor from forging ahead. They are very adept at heading into murky territory and forcing us to "prove it" or else. At some point, and my thought is that the time is now...the congress and senate need to be willing to bite the bullet and risk the loss. Yes, he has stacked the supreme court, but avoiding is only giving them more and more power.

[P J Evans]

anatomist, I think Fitz has the investigation on hold until (or unless) someone decides to unburden their conscience. I don't know how likely that is (Shrub and Cheney may, for all I know, have required all their people to take part in Unspeakably Horrible Rites to insure secrecy), but in any case, they get loyalty from their people even when it's undeserved.
Note also that Bush and Cheney are not required to be loyal to their underlings.

[hauksdottir]

Ah, yes... "insta-declass" (just add water and watch it grow!) and the power grab continues.

Let's say that a document is classified by an agency. We'll use the NSA and installation plans for duplicate-copy servers at ATT. Cheney insta-declassifies without going through declassification channels (no signing off by the hierarchy), has a key detail leaked to show that Americans aren't really being spied on as individuals, just in aggregate, and then classifies the document again, again without telling anybody at the NSA. So who classified it? Is it now a OVP document and not an NSA document? If somebody files a FOIA request, assuming that it is an NSA document, can the government respond, "nope, no such file in that office"? When the leak gets printed, amid demand for a resignation, does an innocent low-level staffer at NSA lose her job, without ever knowing the the VP was responsible?

That would all occur within the Executive branch, but what happens if Cheney reaches into Judicial or Congressional branches?

Suppose that a fishing buddy (maybe Hastert) tells Cheney about a secret file from a hearing on war-profiteering, and hands him a copy. With the Administration in the Hot Seat, Cheney insta-declassifies, leaks a paragraph without context, and seals it all back up nice and tidy. NOW whose document is it? Congress's? Or Cheney's? Cheney could argue that as President of the Senate, he has the right to grab their documents, but does he?

Could he take something from the FISA Court? Or Sealed motions? Or Grand Jury testimony? If a Federal or State Judge seals a document, can Cheney rip it open for political benefit? Given the interference with ongoing investigations for political gain, pressuring and firing people, how can a prosecuter know that the document once Sealed will remain Sealed? That it will stay in the Judicial system and not get used as a football by the Executive branch?

Cheney's reach and secrecy are problematical. Until Congress reins him in (using the power of the purse if nothing else), his unprecedented ability to classify and declassify at whim are going to create obstacles to more than just investigation of his Office.

If we taxpayers can't even learn how many employees are in his office (classified information), how can an investigator learn names and occupations and general areas of responsibility, much less uncover possible wrongdoing? He could have an entire second staff hidden in his basement at the Naval Observatory, working towards Pax Americana Universalis, and nobody would ever know.

Fitzgerald has indicated that he'll work with Congress if they choose to carry the ball, but they are playing in a mine field, and a lot of the congress-critters are irresponsible and cowardly and self-protective. I'm proud of my own representatives, but I don't know if there is enough will in Congress to do the people's bidding. I hope so. This investigation revealed a lot more rocks which need to be turned over and exposed to questioning if we are going to be a people ruled by law.

[freepatriot]

that NY Times article is a real HOOT

''They're putting in a lot more opinion and a lot more color than the traditional reporters,'' said Mr. Cox, adding that the bloggers were challenging ''the theory of objective journalism.''

apparently "objective journalism" is only a "THEORY" at the NY Times

considering that judyjudyjudy was fed lies by scooter libby about the content of the October 2002 NIE, and subsequently agreed to identify scooter with a false description as a "Former Hill Staffer" while hiding the fact that scooter was actually a CURRENT Senior Bush Administration Official, and then went to jail to protect the lying fucker, I'd say that the NY Times has DISPROVEN the theory of "objective journalism"

I don't think that bloggers who demanded the truth from the NY Times has done ANYTHING to damage the "PRINCIPLE" of "objective journalism"

and since the NY Times just has a "THEORY" of "objective journalism", the damage done by the NY Times to the PRINCIPLE OF OBJECTIVE JOURNALISM was probably minimal

since the NY Times doesn't PRACTICE the PRINCIPLE of objective journalism, how could those lying fucks damage it ???

some days, symantics is a very sharp sword

[greenhouse]

Semper Fi? Jodi, you never had faith in the system. I think you meant to say Semper I.

[LabDancer]

Rep. Henry Waxman has scheduled the opening of his Committee's hearings on the leak for Friday March 16, 2007.

Will emptywheel be restoring her commute to D.C.?