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December 12, 2006


Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this kind of request akin to the stovepiping methods we saw used with Iraq? I appreciate that stovepiping involves raw data and here State was in fact asking for CIA's expert opinion, which is proper, but both cases show a desire to ignore the subtleties and weighted uncertainties of intelligence research and just make a yes-no list.

This reminds me very much of how research generally has been treated under Bush -- forget the "sometimes," forget the "yes buts," forget "under certain circumstances" and just make a list we can use in a speech to promote our ideology.

That is basically where our current stem cell policy came from -- a list of 60+ cell lines with the "yes buts" removed, compiled not to guide policy but to sell it. Same with WMDs, same attempt here. CIA stopped wasting their time -- and their intel -- on it.

doesn't this SAO statement fly in the face of our existing knowledge that cheney outed plame not only for her and wilson's knowledge about iraq, but also clearly about iran. there is little doubt that they attempted muzzle all information coming from both by crippling two people that had and worked with the most information. how could you silence intel from that region any better, and silence any other whistleblowers at the same time?

sorry, but everything was planned in this, it is now more and more clear. to continue to talk about iraqi freedom and such is ridiculous. our country has not promoted a democracy since ww2. was it because we were smart enough (then) to realize then that the people of the country had to fix their own issues? give me a list of countries that have US promoted democracy. and then the ones that have had dictators installed by the US.
sorry, our politicians play off of our desire for peace and sanity. feed off it is more appropriate. As you can see, our new congress has problems with truth all ready. they have no use for peace, as it is counterproductive to their job of representing us. their job is being elected, plain and simple.

and we the people? we sent scores of known criminals back to congress to represent us.


It is actually somewhat different. Here, I think it's a case of pushing a strategy at the UN that CIA will not support, for whatever reason. Maybe they don't have the intell, maybe they're really trying to protect sources and methods, maybe they really do think they've got a better way. But it seems like the fault here lies in the strategy. And, of course, a lot of the intell on Iran is shoddy in the first place.

Also, I should have said, there's one other likely candidate to be the SAO here--Condi.

This administration has forgotten the lessons of the cold war. As an old professor of mine who worked as a communications specialist during the Truman administration used to say:

"The map is not the territory".

Maybe the problem is that the CIA knows the answer is an empty list and State didn't like that answer.

Yeah, WO, I think that's a distinct possibility. Or that all the names on the list they DO have come from the MEK.

OK, so Joseph demands a list of Iranians guilty of developing nuclear arms (denied by Iran) from the CIA and the CIA says "we have no such list and no evidence to make one, so leave us alone."

What part of that is so difficult fo these guys to understand?

James, the absence of evidence is evidence that the bad guys are deeply committed to their nefarious plans. Why else would they hide the evidence so well?

No, there's another, more basic reason why CIA doesn't want to give up the information.

Their entire, I mean, their ENTIRE Iranian network got rolled up by the very, very excellent Iranian counterintelligence service back in the 1990's. CIA doesn't want to admit that it doesn't know jack guano about what is going on in the country. The Israelis have a very good network, as do others, but we have to pay top dollar and mucho crown jewels for their crown jewels. The Izzies don't like to talk to CIA anyway, as the CIA leaks like a sieve.

It's not political at all. CIA is simply incompetent. The Revolutionary Guards ran them out of town on a rail. Period. I know you want to blame it on Condi or Bush, but it's much simpler than that. The Iranians did a good job at COIN, that's all.

They actually have something to hide. A very, very resourceful people, the Persians. Beat the socks off Marcus Crassus. Too bad they are so poorly governed.

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