« The Consequence of Being Right | Main | Intelligent Design, Blue State Style »

September 25, 2005


Speaking from experience, are you, MB? ;-)

All good points. One of our other contributors, Kagro X, frequently points out that there's always ways to do, not just bitch. And you've laid out somne very practical ways to 'do', relevant in small towns and big cities. As I wrote earlier today, one can protest the war AND support the troops. Not hard. not hard at all.

PS the counterdemonstration that was expected by organizers to get 20,000 pro-war supporters got 400.

I wish. I WISH....I could be there to shake your hand.

I'm a small guy. What I call a 20th tier blogger. But I've been writing all day to the left wing whiners who have been doing a takedown of yesterday's events. I'm sick of it.

Shit...the anti-war movement does nothing and it's "dead". Cindy goes into a ditch and she's "marginal". A coupla hundred thousand show up from all over the country and it's "the fringe".

I was there. It wasn't the fringe. And alot of folks recognized the off-message stuff and walked away, starting the march without the organizers.

So. Thank you to your larger-than-I could ever do message to the people who are never happy.

If you care, you can read my ode to James Wolcott/Steve Gilliard on my blog:


I've gone to every one of the anti-Iraq was marches since January 2003. I'm middle aged and fairly conventional looking. There are lots of people like me at the Bay Area marches. Yes, there are ANSWER people, but there are also several church groups, greens, unions, professional organizations and lots of individuals with clever signs. This time there was also a march in Walnut Creek, an exurb "over the hill" from the immediate Bay Area. it fot lots of news. The Mone-On vigils got lots of press. Meteor is roght. As Scoop Nieler used to say, "Don't like the news? Go make some of your own."

Wow. Too many typos. Meteor was right. And oit was Scoop Nisker who said that.

Great piece, MB.

If liberals don't like the left to be out front when it comes to actually organizing demonstrations and media events, that''s fine with me... as long as those liberals advance only those ideas or programs not invented by the left. You don't get to take credit for our work if we don't get some of the credit ourselves.

Wait. I can't think of any liberal programs that didn't start out as left ideas. Wow, too bad!

Chris -- you said it!

Meanwhile -- United for Peace and Justice was formed to be a place for groups to coalesce who are not ANSWER -- and UFPJ now has something like 1400 affiliates around the country. The URL I've linked to there is the home page; the one MB linked to is the Boston affiliate. UFPJ put on the better rallies in NYC on Feb. 15, 2003 and the march at the Rep convention. ANSWER is not a coalition; it is a left sectarian formation that attempts to use race politics to browbeat other people into accepting its leadership.

But that's all hooey -- MB is right. If you don't like the antiwar movement we have, what are you doing?

greyhair - you are spot-on. to give wolcott some credit, his point was mainly that the event didnt work so great on the teeve. gilliard's take-down however was inexcusable.

they are both right to argue that the Right has 'better message discipline' than us - they always will. we arent like that, thank fsm. the tv reports here in australia were something like 20 seconds for the 100k+ peace marches (one guy with funny hair, and woman in a greenpeace' teeshirt, and the obligatory pic of a nun (which is mocking, somehow), 10 secs for the 200 pro-murder crew, and 10 seconds to show the one or two arrests. it always will be thus, even if we have absolute message discipline - and if there werent any arrests, the media would have to discuss some trampled flowers or some such.

we will never have the discipline that the right has, and we dont want it - its not us, and we cant control the media - ergo, my best guess is that we need to co-opt the message that is being forced on us (like so many have before) - yep, we're diverse! lots of people are antiwar - hippies and mothers and nuns and kids and the mumia crowd and the haiti crowd and yuppies and foreigners et al - aka a broad cross-section of the public - and we need to build that message over time - particularly in advance of events, so that the tv watchers know what they can expect. thats the only game we can win at.

oh - and one other thing - i cant believe that hardly anyone mentioned the fact that the *ahem* Freedom Walk 2 weeks ago only got 5000 people. we should be celebrating that we outnumbered them by a factor of 20 or more, not complaining that we had so-called splinter groups which were larger than the pro-war crew could muster - despite the backing of WaPo and the other media companies and the DoD all backing their stupid little rally.

Thanks much, MB. The handwringing and tut-tutting from certain netroots strategists over the untidy nature of the rally and march makes me nauseous.

I may not agree with A.N.S.W.E.R. about a lot of things, but we are one when it comes to Bush and his war in Iraq. I embrace my brothers and sisters on the radical left for having the fighting spirit that is so sadly lacking in much of the Democratic Party.

Right on, Meteor. Thanks for spelling some of this out. I made some similar observations that were less well informed on my own page. Also, I'd like to proudly stake a claim on the 21st tier for my own.

One important lesson from the Vietnam Era Anti-War movement is that it actually became more successful in the 1970's when it deemphasized the mass demonstrations in Washington DC, and reformulated the movement on defunding the Vietnam War. This was best done by local groups such as Clergy and Laymen Concerned about the War in Vietnam -- which leveraged the strong religiously based opposition so as to make defunding a strong political demand.

Given current polls regarding support for sending money to Iraq -- I suspect a national effort conducted at the congressional district level on this matter might be well advised.

There are two arguments -- the superordinate is that we should have different national priorities. It isn't just Iraq that needs an improved electrical grid -- East Texas, Lousiaiana and Mississippi need to have a rebuild. Much as we might wish Iraq had freshly painted schools -- we need to figure out how to rebuild and de-mold schools in the US. Any number of such arguments can be made -- and they will attract lots of supporters.

We need to understand that Fraud and gross financial mismanagement do not just happen -- it is intentional, but most people who "play by the rules" are very strongly opposed. This is a supporting argument for undercutting the "stay the course" argument about Iraq. The failure of Congress to respect American Money and how it gets used is a very clear voting issue, and should be deployed against any serving member who is not demanding investigations, accountability and all the rest.

While it was Watergate specifically that brought us to the large majorities in Congress in 1974 -- it was also the reworking of the anti-war theme into a fiscal priority stance that helped. We have that opportunity again if we are willing to do the critical analysis, and make the anti-war position also one about American domestic needs.

mature vs young hard mature women vieille salope mature amatrice mature fuck young young boy and mature mature vieille mature salope mature young first time mature and young boy < mature old fuck mature woman fucking girl hot mature men mature woman asshole mature pics free grosses.femmesmuresx.com grosse femme mature hairy bush mature mature hot movies film mature fuck dogs mature black busty photo penetration femme mature hot nasty mature galerie nylon mature brune mature nu hot wife mature blowjob woman mature mature free galerie rencontre femme mure femme mure amatrice cochon photo de femme mure hard cum her face mature photo x femme mure femme mure pour jeune homme 19ans mature mom cum photo gratuite fellation femme mure age mure nu gratuite x femme mure femme mure tres poilue photo femme mure amateur exhib rencontre coquin femme mure > femme mure et nu gratuit mure femme mure avec jeune mec recette and confiture and and mure photo x femme mure et ronde photo de femme mure xxx femme mure nu photo photo gratuite vieille mature nu mature busty babe gallery nymphomane mature amatrice lady mature mature drunk suck vieille saint girons photo vieille salope gratuit mature collant nylon galerie gratuite mature mature and granny mature lady posing femme amatrice mature vieille salope .com pipe hard concert hard rock berlin hard rock cafe black orchid rock nantes hard audrey tautou film hard archive journal hard pps hard ecoute musique hard rock couple hard roman photo hard film and x and hard photo hard de brigitte lahaie music hard core teen hard preview hard top nissan navara hard and top rencontre hard gratuite pps hard gratuit hard anal fucking photo gratuite femme hard peugeot dangel 505 hard top dvd x hard discount sodomie hard amateur pps humour hard liste hard discount essonne mature riding hard hard tv net hard xxx gratuit

The comments to this entry are closed.

Where We Met

Blog powered by Typepad