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June 14, 2005

Comments

Thanks for a fantastic post, Meteor Blades.

One little thing - California says it's going to reform it's juvenile system...but isn't that due to litigation? (Time to go renew my ACLU membership!)

It is strange how states come down on crime. Outside of the simple barbarity of the south (for example, see this post about Texas from K. Drum's blog if you missed it), things don't just fall on a left/right divide. California is a blue state, sure, which absolutely loves locking them up. Deep blue NY has its famous Rockefeller drug laws, but no death penalty.

Meanwhile, Colorado is more conservative, but I would say it is relatively rational about crime and punishment. I hate the death penalty, but in Colorado, those sentenced to death have all been guilty, beyond any reasonable doubt, of truly heinous crimes. Is it just that smaller states are more rational? Denver has certainly had real crime over the past decades.

I'm beyond cynical about the Gropenfuhrer, but he has made some interesting noises about prison reform. Wouldn't that be something?

Nancy Grace's fiancee was killed many years ago and apparently she's been very angry and upset since that time. What bothers me about her is the endless hostility - she seems to want everyone to be guilty and she wants to see the worst in everyone. She feeds off of people's pain. She is, like everyone at CNN, a carrion.

You missed a couple of important issues.

Firstly why even bother to mention the racism compared to the vastly greater level of sexism here? Try putting the proportion of girls in prisons next to those other two bars? The rape of boys and men in US prisons is so high that altogether there's more rape of men in the US than there is of women. Arguably much much more.... but who even bothers to keep figures on it.

Secondly slavery. The US is one of the few (the only?) country left in the world that makes slavery (of convicts) lawful and has a policy of enslaving people en mass -- forced labour. This is against international law. And it's fucking disgusting.

Meteor Blades --

For God's sake, keep Nancy Grace doing nothing but celebrity trials! Do you really want that grotesquely damaged and cruel woman flapping her mouth to millions of viewers about drug laws or mandatory sentencing?

BoulderDuck --

The oddities of state laws may be partly a time-lag effect. California is blue now, but it hasn't been many years since it tilted red, and the laws in force heavily reflect the back-to-back Deukmejian and Wilson governorships.

As for the South, it's best to think of it politically and legally as a Third World oligarchy.

-- Rick Robinson

But, David, I didn't forget anything. I specifically left you an opening so you could adorn us with another bit of brilliance from your vast experience in the world of put-upon penis-wearers.

What the hell's wrong with you Meteor Blades? Is this some kind of macho bullshit? You know that men get locked up 13 times more than women, that they get executed by the state 100 times more often than women. You mention victimless drug use crimes -- men get convicted seven times more often than women.

Are you just afraid the feminists are going to sit on you if you agree with me?

What's the point in writing a piece about prison reform if you then have to come out with this bullshit remark to pretend you have no compassion for the "penis wearers" inside? Would you refer to women in that sort of way? Why go out og your way to prove how sexist you are? Is this for your feminist audience to make sure we all know who the real victims always are in society? What a disgusting remark.

Also: denial of the right to vote. That's another issue. Most democracies don't pretend that a fellon is no longer a citizen. Many even make special arrangements to allow criminals behind bars to vote in elections.

MB, I was encouraged recently by this article (now subscription only, unfortunately) in NYTimes about "problem solving courts" where judges are trained more to rehabilitate and reform than incarcerate.
link
Headline is, "Judges Turn Therapist in Problem-Solving Court" in case link I just posted doesn't work. (Google will turn up several blogs that have excerpted large chunks of it if you want to read more without paying.)

Would be interested to hear how prevalent these are & whether they are doing any good (with numbers if available), if anyone knows or is interested in doing some research.

CA went through the usual "law 'n' order" paroxysm in the '70s and '80s, but what really got incarceration going was the growing strength of the prison guards' union, who kept campaigning for tougher laws so that they could deliver more and more jobs, and more and more campaign contributions. At the time I left state gov't they were getting double the raises of everyone else. That, plus the three strikes law. Prisons are the pentagon of California.

My neighbor works for one of the big reform groups. He said that studies show that the biggest factor in determining recidivism is whether released persons get a job. Under current conditions, that is very unlikely.

You're right, David. Your oh-so-predictable comment drew a visceral and inappropriate response from me. I should know better. I apologize. What I should have said is: I've read your views long enough to know you think nearly every ill in the world derives from feminists. And that any man who expresses support for feminism must be a self-hating moron or a coward. We don't agree. And we certainly don't agree that sexism trumps racism in the prison system.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time, MB. Thanks. And kudos for turning out the way you have.

Holy shit! It's good to know that I am not the only one with a visceral distaste for DavidByron.

I already left a few comments over at dKos on this post. Nancy Grace is an abomination to our justice system and more and more talking heads are just like her. They hate our justice system and feel that the whole idea of reasonable doubt is "quaint."

That teacher deserves a million thanks. Too bad he was a librul communnist who wanted to convert all of his students to homosexuals.

Far too much of our criminal justice system, at least on the political level, is based on the ideas:

- Anyone who is accused is guilty
- Anyone who's nonwhite is more guilty and more dangerous than a white person, in the same circumstances
- Anyone who is convicted is permanently labeled a "criminal," and any suffering they endure for the rest of their lives is well-deserved as part of their punishment
- Since they're criminals, they don't deserve any help, and it's better to just pretend they'll never get out.
- It is worth any number of innocent or harmless people being locked up to ensure that no dangerous person ever gets near *me*

Just disgusting.

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