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August 13, 2007


If he shows up on Mitt Romney's payroll, I expect to get some kudos. If he doesn't, feel free to mock me.

much like the mafia, he will try to run the campaign from prison

Well, do the math.

If Rove was going to work for Romney it wouldn't be the smartest thing in the world to destroy the first big political victory for Mitt Romney, by stepping on the Romney 'victory' in the Iowa straw polls with the Rove resignation story.

Rove is going on "time out" from politics.

Besides his math was pretty bad in 2006.


Rove believes "the mob" is "out there" just waiting to gather some day in front of his condo, carrying torches and pitchforks. Like somethoing from a Frankenstien movie.

Dr. Frankenrove and his Bush monster...

Now there's an image to work with.

And here's some wisdom worth noting, Marcy I hope Howard Dean gets to read this personally, and one of his Rovian, ladder-climbing staffers doesn't run interference... "if Dems don't push hard on Republicans as well as Dems about FISA, we will not only make no progress, but miss an opportunity to reach out..."

Dems need to take this a s cue to lean harder against the Republican's neocon core, the Republican Party itself may ot be facing extinction, but I carry a great deal of hope that its no-bid, book-cooking, war-profiteering "wing" may have seen it's last days.

the great satan is on his way out the door, but only after helping destroy the bush presidency.

two things are clear about rove:

1 - he is a congenital liar; he would lie when it was easier to tell the truth


2 - he is a skilled whiner and ass-coverer.

it's the latter talent i suspect is most at work here.

just as he is assuring all that things are ok in iraq when they are not,

he is saying the republican party is basically ok, when, in fact, it is disintegrating


it was really those crooked republicans, not rove or bush, who were responsible for the 2006 loss of congress.

karl's only mistake, as karl tells the story, is that he wasn't tough enough with those miscreant republican congressmen.

yeah, right. one of the most vindictive and ruthless figures in american politics was a softie.

as for the future,

let's see,

how long does it take in america for a scoundrel to be rehabilitated in the media?

two years, three?

and then the legend of jessie james, starring karl rove, will start playing on your teevee.

Hmmm. My money would be on Sealed v Sealed. Nobody in this administration resigns until they absolutely have to, and of all the investigations that are out there, this one is the furthest along.

Today is my 67th Birthday. I was born in 1940, of an American mother, 5th generation, D.A.R., and a German father, who was designated, in the subsequent months, as an Enemy Alien. I learned from him that our citizenship is a valuable, precious thing, and must always be reinforced by being an active part of our government: We arethe government.

The perfect Birthday present, one which would reflect some of the proud memories I have of my life as a U.S. citizen, would be honor, honesty, and justice brought back to the process of government in Washington. Karl Rove's resignation, whioch I learned of from Scott Horton's wonderful blog at Harper's, is a partial gift in that direction, and I rejoice! Rejoice! Rejoice!

i can't help but be hopeful about rove leaving.... hope he's leaving as the investigators are closing in.

not so hopeful about the dems though. "Frankly, if Dems don't push hard on Republicans as well as Dems about FISA, we will not only make no progress, but miss an opportunity to reach out to libertarians, many of whom are ripe to leave the Republican party anyway."

between fisa and iraq/iran - the dems might lose me too. there are other important issues (like the climate and the economy), but i don't expect the dems in congress to be able to pass good law now. i do expect them to stop bad law. their inability to do that does not give me hope for a future of good law.

He has to go home so he can control the election stealing operations directing them far from the white house. Its to use the FISA 105B section to attack the vote counting / delivery systems to do the "Math"

The whole RNC server thing with Ohio on steroids.

Selise, the "law" written in Congress is only as "good" as the people who send their Representatives to Congress. You are an important part of government and you must play your role by demanding "good law." The people who do not believe We the People have a voice are the ones who do not participate.

"Hmmm. My money would be on Sealed v Sealed. Nobody in this administration resigns until they absolutely have to, and of all the investigations that are out there, this one is the furthest along."

You caught my eye on this suggested point...THAT would be interesting.

selise -

the "libertarian" cite is an important point.

there is quite a bit of libertarian in most americans.

that presents a real opportunity to the democratic party to make more of these issues, including freedom to criticize gov't openly and loudly, to chose sexual partners, to have access to contraception and abortion, to make family and child rearing decisions without govt meddling, to be treated respectfully by police and security personnel, to have much more control over personal information demanded by corporations, to have an absolute right of habeas, etc

What with political armageddon this fall shaping up, anybody want to hazard a guess at the order of battle?

iraq will be in a better place, because they will all be dead.
600,000 and counting.
fuck you, karl rove.
worst. person. in the universe.

margaret - oh, i see now. i'm a lousy citizen and my lousy government is all my fault because i don't participate. thanks for explaning it so clearly.

orionATL - i agree. foreign policy (especially wars) also matters to people who self-identify as libertarian. don't know if that is true for the "libertarian in most americans" you describe. i'd like to think so, but just don't know.


I'm not ruling out Rove working for a Presidential. But I'd put my money on Fred over Mitt. Fred's already got a number of key Rove allies, so why not Rove himself?

Hey -- EW quoted in the NYT!


Good point. Who the heck quits their job to spend more time with their kids who JUST STARTED COLLEGE!!

That's precisely the age where you start spending LESS time with your kids.

Karl , if I may be so bold and personal for a moment, will spend a few weeks off, and then get about setting up shop at home, and begin his memoirs, the first of a series, which will start to be available early 2009.

He probably will be willing to do a little consulting for certain candidates, but only giving his opinion of final strategies. If there is an (at this point) upset in 2008, he could reappear in Government.

He is still protected from Congress by the same mechanisms as before and doesn't expect any kind of indictments though he knows Congress mainly driven by the bloggers still considers him to be "white meat." This may cause him to "travel overseas" a bit during Congressional Hearings season just to avoid the crap.

In 2008, his memory will have started to fade much as Rumsfeld's has.

Agree that Rove is leaving because something is about to hit the fan in the next months.

If I had to put money on one thing, it would be the Don Seligman prosection. Scott Horton at Harper's (and the NY Bar Association) has run a series of articles about the Seligman prosecution and obviously has a great deal of info. Rove was up to his eyeballs in it. Ultimately, this is more serious than David Iglesias' firing, because they sent a man to prison based on trumped up charges and gross prosecutorial and judicial misconduct, and Congress is investigating.

Interesting that it would be Rove who has to leave and not Gonzo, showing that BushCo is at the point where they need the judicial firewall more than political advice. And Rove's stock in that regard has really sunk. The Atlantic profile of Rove by Josh Green (who wrote the famous earlier expose of Rove's involvement in Alabama judicial politics, truly a scurrilous tale) is well worth a read, even if we here and Josh Marshall have made many of the same criticisms over the years. (Short version: Can win elections, though not always fairly, but is arrogant about policy, has no concept of how to govern and has fostered a kleptocracy.)

"In 2008, his memory will have started to fade much as Rumsfeld's has"

Jodi, and to all the trolls that comment here as Jodi, just ask Robert McNamara, how much he "faded" from the memory of those who died in Vietnam.

I always learn so much from your posts and from the excellent comments. I have a couple of other speculations on Rove -- could Pat Leahy have asssigned a special prosecutor -- Fitz perhaps? I would love that one.

Or maybe he's retiring to be Jeb Bush's campaign manager for his presidential run? OMG, now that's scary. Weren't they all together this last weekend?

EPU'd on the prior thread.

"Another interesting rumor I picked up (again from a person who MIGHT know, but probably doesn't) is that the Rove departure is the beginning of an agressive effort by Fielding to "get in front of" the various DoJ scandals, and that Gonzo well be gone, unwillingly, as soon as they have a nominee for AG that is both completely, scrupulously honest, AND completely in the bag, and they got that last night (with no indication of who this walking dichotomy is) and Fielding launched his plan with Rove's announced departure (also rumored to be part of the new AG designee's price). This plan was described to me in primarily military language (getting the innitiative and keeping it, singleminded persuit of a specific goal (no indictments until after Bush's last, pardon-drenched moments in office) which may give a hint to it's proponant's identities. Both rumors I report today were given probably in the hopes of dissemination, and so deserve suspicion. But they are fun to kick around.

Posted by: lizard | August 13, 2007 at 12:08"

I suspect there are numerous components behind Rove's departure. Certainly all the grounds EW proffered and that appear to be the core of discussion so far. I do think that PinNC's suggestion regarding the Siegelman matter in Alabama, as well as another commenter's suggestion that Larry Flynt may have something juicy (pun semi-intended), are awfully interesting thoughts as well. Whatever the amalgam truly consists of, it does not account for Rove's exit alone. Likely the more important consideration is how the forces on Rove personally figure into the bigger picture of the whole Administration. I picture a crippled jetliner, furiously dumping fuel in a panicked effort to make it the last distance and get down on the ground at the destination before it crashes and burns in a fireball.

We have been extremely focused on the FISA debacle; and rightfully so. Indeed, as soon as everyone's joy is expressed and discussed, we would be wise to get back to what is important, and that is the health of our Constitution and exposing what has happened clearly to the greater public so that the malfeasants are never able to infect our system of government again, In this vein, I suggest that Bushco had to jettison a source of liability and attack locus; and so much the better if it served as a sort of shiny object chaff in the process. There were only three choices here: Cheney, Gonzales or Rove. Wasn't going to be Cheney, he is the Darth Boss after all. Gonzo is way to deep in the middle of perhaps the biggest Constitutional and criminal attack on the citizenry in our nation's history; not to mention that he is an completely unskilled, weak pansy-assed cipher on his own. It is impossible for them to sever off Gonzo at this point. It had to be Rove.

Shouldn't someone in the excellent Neofascist Controlled Media (NCM) be asking Bush why he accepted Turd Blossom's resignation when he refused to accept so many other resignations (Rummy etc)?

One other point. There is no reason in the world that Rove should still have his security clearance. It should be demanded that he drop that in the plastic bin on the way out before the door hits him in the ass.

Agree that Rove is leaving because something is about to hit the fan in the next months.
Posted by: Mimikatz | August 13, 2007 at 12:12

His biggest error, Mr. Rove says, was in not working soon enough to replace Republicans tainted by scandal.

Notice the inherent ambiguity in the language, "Republicans tainted by scandal." A taint is a ugly mark that is damaging but not necessarily career ending while "corruption" beyond a reasonable doubt and "criminality" is the kiss of death to a politician . Rove is projecting here. He is not talking about other Republicans, he is framing his own defense. Anything Rove will be charged of was, is, and will be "taint".

I'm with you mimikatz. Jodi's buccolic scene of Rovian memoir-writing and re-emergence as a player to be named at a later date is more of the same enabling we've come to expect from adminstration sympathizers who turn a blind eye to corruption in governement.


you might be on to something

but, in any event,

i just got thru reading the compendium of scott horton posts you linked to.

my god, what a story.

i hadn't read horton in over a month. reading these posts all together made my blood boil.

and horton has set them in a very appropriate literary context.

the siegelman case ranks right up there with the jose padilla case as cautionary tales of the gross mistreatment and injustice american government can visit on a citizen.

their treatment is much closer to soviet or saddam justice than the justice we, very foolishly it turns out, take for granted that we are entitled to.

Explaining Karl Rove?:
"...glorification of that sort of gambling in "clever strokes" which constitutes the very essence of theft, swindling, and all sorts of similar anti-social deeds." [Peter Kropotkin comments on prison systems and relevant inmates ca. 1899 autobiography.]

I propose a new game, like making a list of ANTI-SOCIAL CLEVER STROKES to teach understanding and spotting of such.

EW @ Top: "I especially like the way Rove admits that 'the real target is Mr. Bush,' not because Rove observes the banality that many people believe he was not elected. But because, as I've suggested, Bush may well be the target."

Is it me, or is there a slight note of resentment in Rove's tone there?

It kind of sounds like he might be saying, "Sure, you can fire me, Cluster McFuckwit, but I'm not the real target here. *You* are. And now you're gonna have to fight off the slings and hordes of outrageous rabble without me to help shield you. Good luck with that."

File this under TAINT.

Ro Ro Rove by Larry C Johnson
Jack Abramhoff has been telling friends and family in the last few months that Karl Rove was going down because he is implicated in the bribery investigations. This much I know–Abramhoff has been talking freely and fully to the FBI about Rove and what he knew and when he knew it. Whether that translates into an indictment remains to be seen.

Being a little tongue in cheek...

No one has mentioned the absolute SCARIEST possibility about Rover's departure. Could it be that Bush has developed his OWN brain and told him to get lost? THAT is scary!

Earth to Sojourner. Please return to reality....

Rove was right: going into the November election, "The Math" was on the GOP's side. Lest we forget, Republican poll numbers were rising on the eve of the Mark Foley scandal... And then, suddenly, it was every chickenhawk for himself....

In the grand scheme of things, it's still a sex scandal which took Rove out.

AFAIK, Rove leaked his resignation story to Paul Gigot at the WSJ on Saturday.

Even Pox News must be pissed at Rover.

A Grand Exit... but Rove will be returning over the weekend:

Rove said earlier Monday that his resignation as was not forced and that he plans to spend his post-White House career writing a book and teaching.

Perhaps Bush's most powerful White House aide, Rove submitted his resignation to Bush on Friday, he told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux in an e-mail.

When asked for his reaction to those who say he's being "run out of town," Rove responded, "That sounds like the rooster claiming to have called up the sun."

Rove has been the target of congressional scrutiny as he and other White House staffers have been subpoenaed by Congress to testify in the case of several fired U.S. attorneys. Rove served as Bush's political adviser last year as the president failed to overhaul U.S. immigration law and Democrats won control of Congress.

Other White House officials who left after the election include White House counselor Dan Bartlett, budget director Rob Portman, chief White House attorney Harriet Miers, political director Sara Taylor and deputy national security adviser J.D. Crouch. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld left his job immediately following the election, as the Iraq war's influence on voters became clear.

Both Rove and the president are expected to speak on the White House South Lawn at 11:35 a.m. ET before boarding Marine One. Then Bush and Rove will head to the president's ranch in Crawford, Texas. Rove intends to return to Washington over the weekend, according to a White House official.

Rove said the first thing he plans to do after leaving the White House is "go dove hunting in West Texas with family and friends, then drive my wife and the dogs to the beach."


Orion--the difference between Don Seligman and Jose Padilla is that Seligman was the Dem governor of Alabama and Jose is a very minor maybe AQ sympathizer. Sad but true that they could do that to Padilla for political gain, but unthinkable that they could do it to Seligman, and if to Seligman, then . . . . So all the more reason to draw the line at Seligman.

And I really don't see Rove surfacing with a Presidential campaign any time soon. If anything, statewide races where they appreciate his brand of dirty tricks and worse. But not federal races, not for a very long time.

I don't know that I buy "sealed vs sealed" but I do think it's possible that Gonzo has been protecting Rove in some way. (let us count the ways...shal we? Or perhaps Marcy has done this already.) Wasn't one of the plans posited that Gonzo would be in trouble after the recess or even resign at that time? Maybe this is linked to the possible impeachment or resignation of Gonzo.

Also is it possible that the dems laid these things out in a back room deal over the fisa passage? Just brainstorming.

My bet is that it's linked to Gonzo and what happens with him next. Gonzo's big ties were to Bush, as were Rover's.

Neil: Rove isn;t officially leaving until the end of August. So the question is what is he doing after the labor Day holiday, not in the next 2 weeks.


Oh, I've been quoted in the Times before--on the front page of "dead tree." But, goodness gracious, they even put my horse puckey in there!!


Rove has been implicated for a long time, and Ralston clearly was right at the nexus there.


For the record, I WILL buy Rove's book, unlike Novak's or Tenet's or Stephen Hayes' hagiography of Cheney. Rove is a pretty smart person on the detail levels about politics. He just has an unjustified belief that humans will accept false promises forever.

Here's another thought. Last week I described the flurry of Cheney interviews as a "charm offensive" laying the groundwork for another term as VP. Maybe Cheney is trying to clean up the Bush Presidency by getting rid of as many of the Texas hacks as he can!

BMAZ: Thanks! I needed that! ;-)

""to "travel overseas" a bit during Congressional Hearings season just to avoid the crap.""

Which ever well-compensated neocon troll is commenting under "Jodi's" name in this statement, Jodi would never use a word such as "crap." S/he delights in calling those of us who use any off-color language a "pottymouth."

OT Miss you Free Patriot, prayers and thoughts for you as you take care of your Mom.

Mimikatz @ 13:32... I have had to wonder if this is not a matter of Cheney throwing Rove out, too. Rove has served his purpose, but Cheney probably wants Dubya to focus on his (Cheney's) agenda, and does not want Rove around as a distraction.

Rove said the first thing he plans to do after leaving the White House is "go dove hunting in West Texas with family and friends, then drive my wife and the dogs to the beach."

Any chance Cheney is going with them? ;-)

Selise, It is going to be 99, here, today......it's my 67th Birthday, and I'm not being mean to you...just making a general statement about citizenship, which we can all be reminded of.
Drink some iced tea and celebrate the departure and probable come-uppance of Karl Rove in the courts. I believe it will happen. And, I believe Congress is getting the flack from voters as they drift around their homestates. We do have to put pressure on them to read the laws they pass, in addition to writing better laws. Actually, if they would only enforce the Constitution, they might not have to CTA's so much.

MimiKatz: "Rove isn't officially leaving until the end of August. So the question is what is he doing after the Labor Day holiday, not in the next 2 weeks."

That brings up another interesting point for analysis. If Rove is leaving because something is about to break open, Rove or the White House apparently doesn't believe it will come out before Labor Day.

That would tend to argue against the cause being something *not* in the White House's control, like a sex scandal or unsealed indictment. If it were something like that, you'd think Rove would be gone in days, not weeks.

Ah well, I suspect we'll know by the end of October.

Still surprised I haven't anywhere seen the headline:

Rove Resigns, Bibles Throughout America Burst Aflame

Another suggestion that the Republicans forced Bush to in effect fire Rove is that this story broke on a Monday morning. According to Paul Gigot, Rove told him Saturday afternoon. IMVHO, GOP types probably gave Bush an ultimatum on Friday, it has to be announced no later than Monday morning (or else ... probably had something to do with supporting the Dems on oversight).

Dove hunting...how symbolic is that??

The TNH server seems to be slowing down a bit. Are there a lot of hits from The New York Times link?

Yeah KJ, they haven't had a successful hunt down at the Armstrong Ranch since they bagged ole Harry.

Why is Rove worth more to Bush out of the White House than in?

1. Rove is a failure and a liability becuase Bush needs more.

2. Rove is successful but Bush anticipates the need to distance himself from Rove. Moreover, Rove can continue to advise on a personal level.

3. Rove really does want to spend time with his wife and visit his son at school, write a book, teach politics and hunt doves rather than be influential in political strategy at the highest level in the world's greatest superpower.

OK, so 3 is out.

1 is an interesting question but I just don't see Bush cutting Rove loose, even if he's a failure. Bush stays with his failures because Bush doesn't admit to failure, and cutting a failure loose is admitting failure.

If it's 2, and if the taint becoms scandal and grows into an indictment, which case do you think it will be?

A. Don Siegelman
B. DOJ/US Attorney purge
C. Abramoff/Ralston
D. Voter Caging

JGabriel and Boo

Important notes on timing. The September 1 thing, of course, would follow with the timing of the Congressional recess--though also the timing of a Fred candidacy, if it ever happens.

But the Saturday thing is interesting. It explains why they went to Gigot (someone reliable enough to sit on it until Monday). But it doesn't explain why Monday for the release?

Rove needs a fund for his defense and he cannot start one from the WH. He needs to get going with that job ASAP.

EW - No, that makes perfect sense in the Rove playbook. Go aggressive and look strong. Friday news dump would have applied the patina of shame. Monday morning is in your face, proud, and lends itself much more to the David Gregory, Suzanne Malveaux, John Fund bullshit they want to sell and spread.

But it doesn't explain why Monday for the release?

EW, even though Karl is "staying" for another couple of weeks, could it be that that is just window dressing? Maybe by announcing it today, they are trying to get Karl out on terms that appear friendly, but something BIG is coming later this week that the administration has no control over. It makes one wonder...


you are right about the difference in status and usefulness to society of the two men

but the two cases are of equally great concern.

siegelman was charged and prosecuted on trumped-up grounds by republican opponents (the legal arguments were similar to those used against state employee georgia thompson in wisconsin).

padilla was arrested and detained on trumped-up charges for the political benefit of the president.

the bush administration detained him under military authority and in solitary confinement for three years, refusing to honor his habeas rights or release him to a civilian court.

in military detention, he was subjected to sensory deprivation that amounts to "no marks" torture.

both cases illustrate quite starkly how easy it is for american law and legal tradition to be broken or ignored where there is the political will to do so (and where political opposition is weak).

and both cases point to an american presidency that was pathologically insensitive to the value of an individual citizen's liberty.

their coequal importance likes in the fact that in either case, any one of us could be similarly prosecuted or detained.

Spilling it over the weeekend (Saturday) insures everyone in the press knows about it before it happens on Monday, and gives the story big coverage. Keeping him on until August 31 lends to the appearance there is no issue forcing the decision.

I agree with Zhtwn from the last thread...he's slithering away to do something from under a remote rock with complete deniability.

IMVHO, the "spending more time with the family," is extremely relevant wrt the timing. It strongly suggests to me that this happened very quickly and Rove had no time to set up a soft landing such as for example teaching at Pepperdine, where Ken Starr runs the law school.

Per everyone else emptywheel, I hope you take a deep breath and smell the roses. We may never know exactly how big a role you played in this, but we all know your work was very significant.

mimi katz: "Neil: Rove isn;t officially leaving until the end of August. So the question is what is he doing after the labor Day holiday, not in the next 2 weeks."

Of course not. We all know what he'll be doing for the next 2 weeks--- shredding shredding shredding... oh and burning, reformatting, shattering hard drives and using FISA or some other unconstitutional prerogative, to access telecom servers & wipe them clean.

"spending more time with the family"

in anticipation of heading off on a little sojourn in the pokey?

(plea bargaining having already been completed)

David Corn talks about Rove and politics: In June 2006, Rove gave a speech to New Hampshire Republicans and blasted Democrats for advocating "cutting and running" in Iraq. He said of the Democrats, "They may be with you for the first shots. But they're not going...to be with you for the tough battles." But isn't Rove now doing the same on a personal scale? He is departing the White House when the going in Iraq is as tough as it ever was.

In an earlier 2006 speech, Rove exclaimed, "America is at war....To retreat before victory has been won would be a reckless act." He was, of course, talking about a military retreat. But look at it this way: Rove helped Bush start a war, and now hundreds of thousands of American GIs (and millions of Iraqi civilians) have no choice but to live with the consequences of that decision. Why should Rove--and not they--be allowed to say, Sorry, now I have to bug out to spend more time with my family? How nice for the Roves that he can walk away from the war. link

One thought and a question:

It seems like the guy to watch (I guess that means you, ew) is Fred Fielding. Outside of the 4th branch, I can't think of anybody who is more important in Bushco right now, working overtime on defining uberexectutive privilege and pretending to be cordial to congress in releasing documents, etc. If FF said it's time for Rove to jump ship (for whatever reason), he jumps ship, and it's just one move out of a sequence of 10 or 20 to come.

And one question is, about those moves, is this #1 in some sort of recess appointment extravaganza? Is there some way that Bushco can do a significant changing of the guard and, under FF's stipulations, keep the firewalls intact?

Question #2, is viewing this in the context and aftermath of 11/7/06 (not a good day for KRove). What's the more recent, post 11/7 history of Rove's political briefings--need to check that timeline again--, and stuff like fired USAs and politicized DoJ, things that seemed to move forward under their own inertia, unaware that there might be actual oversight? In other words, KRove had one agenda while doing "the math" before the midterm election, but how do we interpret the execution of that agenda over the course of 9 months when it didn't go the way he hoped it would? It seems like it's all about timing and endgame. It's just a little bit hard to work out with the background distraction of earlier investigations (Plame, Abramoff).

Remember KRove at 100 days after 11/7 saying that it seems like it's been 100 years, and that wasn't a good time at DoJ. So it seems like there must have been an "agenda," at some point (11/8?), let's just get to the August recess and then we'll use the "after Labor Day, everybody's in for the duration" talking point. Just trying to figure out their plan as it unfolds...

I think a lot of the mentioned concepts are coming together at the same time. Leaving on "his" terms strong on a Monday, something DOJ hammering later in the week, slinking off to do more damage to the republic under a rock and stealing elections. In an odd twist he must believe that he'll get the Libby deal at least.

Any chance that there will be a White House document dump sometime after September 1st? Libby took the fall for Plame and it could be that Rove is going to have to take the fall for the DOJ scandals though they will still claim he doesn't have to testify due to executive privilege.

I'm wondering something - as a federal employee, is there a reason for staying on until the end of the month? Such as, vacation, health insurance, pension, etc?

From what I've seen, it looks like he was done today.

Orion--I don't disagree with you. Both are despicable. I was looking at it from the perspective of a member of Congress who might think Seligman cut closer to home than Padilla, and so that was where thney would draw the line.

Rick Perstein floats the comparison to Charles Colson, who left the nixon WH to set up a deniable dirty tricks machine. I think someone else mentioned that idea here too.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I do think they had to let him go. (And Colson never got to do that because he was too taken up with trying to keep himself out of jail--unsuccessfully.)

Another theory: The spend-more-time-with-my-family line got me thinking: What if this has nothing to do with the White House? What if this is all a simple case of Mrs Rove deciding that, now that she's gotten her child off to college, it would be a great time to divorce her evil husband and start a new life for herself? The woman was married to Rove, so she's probably learned a trick or two over the years. Maybe Rove is just trying to get in front of a nasty divorce.

Yeah Katie, whatever happened to good ol hawk hunting?

No one mentions Fitzgerald. Has he wrapped up his investigation?

No one mentions Fitzgerald. Has he wrapped up his investigation?

Posted by: alabama | August 13, 2007 at 15:13
At a minimum, he'll be around until Libby exhausts his appeals.

EW: "... the Saturday thing is interesting. It explains why they went to Gigot (someone reliable enough to sit on it until Monday). But it doesn't explain why Monday for the release?"

Good point. The Bushies usually dump news like this on a Friday.

Damn, it just looks weirder and weirder the longer you look at it. If there's an urgency to get Rove out, then why 2.5 weeks notice? If there's not an urgency, then why announce on a Monday instead of waiting for Friday?

Then there's the problem of reading tea leaves of the incompetent. There's always a real possibility that something makes no sense for the simple reason that the people involved are idiots.

And there's also the possibility Christy highlighted at FDL: that Rove might be leaving because if you want to make a pile of money peddling influence, it's best to do so while you still have influence to peddle.


It's so frustrating knowing that the given reason for Rove's departure is a lie, but having too many choices for the real reason to determine why.

I know the true reason will come out eventually. But I wanna know *now*.

He says the "Democrats" won't be with you in the long run. Well, what percentage of America is against the war now? Are they ALL Democrats?

Today is a good day for America.

Flynt normally gives his targets some warning. The guy is a gentleman, and not really a hater. He just takes down hypocrites when he can. Look at Livingston, we still don't know what Flynt had on him.

The look on Bush's face tells me this is not some grand underground campaing move. Bush was unhappy. They are going to Crawford to plan. They can't control whatever is about to happen, but they have a pretty good idea when it will break.

What day does Hustler hit the stands?

"if Dems don't push hard on Republicans as well as Dems about FISA, we will not only make no progress, but miss an opportunity to reach out to libertarians, many of whom are ripe to leave the Republican party anyway"

Great call. I was a Libertarian Republican. That is until I realized that Republicans don't give a rats ass about civil liberties. Now, I am willing to vote for anyone who is opposed to Republicans -- regardless of who it is because the Republican Party is beyond corrupt and it needs to be given the Old Yeller treatment. Most libertarian leaners I know are disgusted. Libertarians are first and foremost idealists, not loyalists. Except for those who believe they must be in a minority and persecuted, idealists of all stripes and creeds are hanging thier heads in shame.

basically anything but registered as a Green . Many psudo libertarians are for economic liberty rather than civil liberty.

I think JGabriel is on the same thinking track that I am. We may be giving these guys too much credit. My experience is that nasty vindictive people tend to think that EVERYONE thinks the same way they do, (they are therefore actually being defensive not aggressive). Could it be that the WH mafia thinks that if they throw the wolf pack a piece of meat (rove), they will have more time to get away (that is, they think we are after the PEOPLE not the acts)? Simplistic, but we get broadsided all the time by not anticipation stupidity.

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, no more talk about Jeb being involved with elected government. His brain actually works once or twice a month which makes him far more dangerous than Chimpy (I suspect less snortin' and drinkin').

I tend to think this is a Bush Sr move. The Brits are abandoning ship in a big way in Iraq, the market melted and though things seem to be stabilized on the liquidity front, the economy is sure to tank, because however much Wall Street howls, Bernanke is not going to push the inflation lever just to bail out the White House in the short run. And even if he were to try, the bond markets wouldn't let him. You put all this together with other pending disasters and the Bush Crime Syndicate has got to make a move. Dumping Rove is a necessary part of that move. My guess is that they are also not at all charmed by the prospect of an air attack on Iran. That is even more reason to put the shrub on a short leash. In the longer view, Rove was always a bit player, and his bit is played.

One more for the list of possible legal problems for Rove: the voting machines are being decertified. This can mean (please please) that they now have access to the code that Diebold et al. used to fix the elections. A low percentage I admit, but if anything cracks there it could lead right to rove.


why not #3? Haven't you learned to handicap your fondest hopes yet?

Karl will be pleased. Many people read your book too.

And for all--

"the sun shines on every old mangy dog's ass one day, sooner or later"

nothing of substance to add, just thought I'd inflict my sense of humor on everyone.

So this may be an nth-blood for the admin, with Karl's sobriquet of turdblossom,
we could also say that this maladministration has now been deflowered. :)

nothing of substance to add, just thought I'd inflict my sense of humor on everyone.

So this may be an nth-blood for the admin, with Karl's sobriquet of turdblossom,
we could also say that this maladministration has now been deflowered. :)

sorry bout the double-post--don't think it was a browser issue, think it was just me F-ing Up hitting back button and saying yes to resend the postdata. sorry.

Usually Labor Day is the tidewaterLine for same-year elections, but the Republican Party in SC has started a primary scheduling shift that might bring microdata managers like Rove into demand much sooner than usual election cycles.

For example, BSteiner in MO signed a pamphlet which has become controversial in the past few days; maybe KRove can help extricate Steiner, the Director of the Republican National Committee office of strategic information. PKiel writes about it laconically there.

Yet another pasttime in which a semi-retired millionaire like KRove could engage would be keeping the pragmatic new breed of young Republicans' fires burning; see second semester syllabus, SaraT guest lecturer on the modern database profiling, which yielded the datapoints in the RNC bullying letter linked from TPMM, above; in that letter a computer algorithm is seen transparently thru the hype; it spotted a town in MO in which the household profile is akin to a typically Democratic Party dominance but the community demographic shows a disproportionately large number of married adults compared to the rest of MO; just a trial balloon for the algorithm, but worth seeing if the octagenarian who is one of eight elderly voters in that town, a registered Democrat, might be hazed into voting Republican. But KRove, if he were to counsel the code writers, might remain in the perpetual background in the MO fundraising letter. In the Taylor matter, there is always the enticement a court might instruct her to tell more, and more things that would be closer to a dirty tricks campaign KR might have guided, though she seemed to manage directing projects ably very independently.

When a guest professor, he could find his portrait in the halls of worthies, many of whom are into the war thing as a meritorious way to explore polity. Purposefully, KR would opt to belong to various cogitative boards, such as one on which DaIssa also serves.

Then again, there is the fourthBranch's constitutionality which issue has yet to be elaborated. It is bruited that the energy taskforce matter might surface yet again, though with the 'standing' challenges which are the favorite squelching tool of four or five on the US Supreme Court, it would take some energetic research to bring the issues such as this and, illustratively, the TreatAsTopSecret category of government documents, before the august body which is Scotus.

I think it should be a nice summer; from Gypsy Love Song
Slumber on, my little gypsy sweetheart
Dream of the field and the grove
Can you hear me, hear me in that dreamland
Where your fancies rove

I don't believe Fitzgerald is done with these guys. I would bet everything he's not done with Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Steven Hadley or Dan Bartlett. Nope, not done at all...

I think they rolled Rove out early in the recess because they also want to move Gonzo along before the end of August, as well.

My money is on a Gonzo resignation before the end of the recess, and the announcement of a 'mutually agreeable' - to Dems and Republics - recess-appointed AG.

This feels like a house cleaning, as part of a more-comprehensive damage-limiting back room deal 'for the good of the Country.'

The Genie might be getting stuffed back in the bottle...

TPMmuckraker has a story on how Harry Reid made deal with Bush so that Bush wouldn't make any recess appointments and the Senate would move on nominations after the recess. Anyone believe that Bush will keep his word?

Taechan - I saw that. Hey, what are a few lifetime nazis on the Federal bench in return for a skeleton crew not having to take 2 or 3 days out of their vacation? Cause, you know, they worked really hard for us and our Constitution recently.

Today is my 67th Birthday.


Today is my 39th birthday. I spent a lovely weekend with friends and family. I got nice presents, too, but nothing that made me SMILE quite like hearing that Turdblossom was going to spend more time with his family.

(I felt bad for his family, but still.)

I agree with Knut Wicksell -- this has all the marks of Poppy Bush about it. GWB does not spend all that much time in Maine, but he did last weekend, and I would imagine the bows were tied on the package, whatever it is, on the speedboat.

Looking at the timeline, Rove will be cleaning out his office before Bush comes back from Texas -- thus probably no public departure party and all -- all you are going to get will be the affection on display today plus their ride back to Texas on Air Force One. Mid August -- Monday or Friday is when you want to do something you wish to obscure while folk are attending their lakes and beaches. My bet would be on Abramoff, because he is the only one really fitted out with an actual Grand Jury and Prosecutor. I wonder if Karl might have made a recent Grand Jury appearance, under the radar so to speak.

Possibility Rove will be replaced? - laughable;
Duties spread around? - 100%
Principle: When everyone's responsible, no one is responsible.

Henceforth, inquiries won't be stonewalled directly, folks will simply be referred on to someone else, ad infinitum, in an endless loop. Two years from now they will still not be sure exactly who's responsible for locating the old files.

Someone will be advising, but on an informal, off the record basis. The idea that the chief of staff will make the replacement decision, again laughable. Job has been retired.
Bush will be (ahem) making his own political decisions.

Rove's pending departure was the very first bit of news I woke to this morning. Not only was Monday chosen, but early Monday morning with enough lead time to make it into all the morning news shows I suppose. Certainly the opposite of a Friday news dump.

Katie Jenson's comment above is spot on: hunting 'doves' is deliberate double entendre. I wonder whether Rove also intended a double entendre for his plan to drive his wife and "the dogs" to the beach. Why group his wife with dogs?

There are a couple good comments here, but the rest of you, too bad there isn't a rating for stupidity. Mr."Andhowe, why don't you wipe the spit off your screen and keyboard. Then you could also learn to write some content rather than cuss words, then maybe you wouldn't be ashamed to use you real name.

My appologies to MR ANDHOWE I failed to recognize the page format. I'm even more shocked to learn that STAGEMOM was actually the Bitchy one. Living your life percariously through your child, no doubt. How cliche'-ic your life must be. No wonder you use cuss words to express your ideas.

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