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November 13, 2006



this angry Independent did vote against the fools, the charalatans, the warped souls.

Mark Foley was only a slight blip on my horizon.

It was the WAR WAR WAR WAR.

And stupid leaders, and

... now I am getting upset so I will leave it at that.


Britney Spears, one of the all-time phonies in show biz, is an apt metaphor.

The problem for the GOP is what does "tack right" mean? More social conservatism? Clearly the Terry Schiavo interference scared the suburbanites and extreme anti-abortionism lost even in South Dakota. Small government? Good luck, as most Americans, including exurbanites, like government benefits and services. Militarism? Hello--Americans are tired of and disgusted by unnecessary foreign wars. Low taxes? Many people have woken up to the con perpetrated on them and won't mind if taxes on the top 5% go up.

Not much left there.

I think that the GOP won those Ohio races and 3-4 others because of the robocalls, and I would like to see stiff fines and an explicit provision for an injunction if the calls don't say up front who is paying for them and who they are in support of.

Jodi, on this and in many other areas we agree. and a non-partisan message: go to anysoldier.com and send soemthing for the holidays. It's not their fault their C-in-C is an idiot.

The Marine we send stuff to shares the package because too many of his buddies get nothiug whatsoever from home. Send wool socks, foot powder, beef jerky and books. Send toiletries. send something.


I don't think Schivao or Foley had more than a little nudging effects. Schivao might have but it was old news by election time.

South Dakato anti-abortion forces just (as someone else said) reached for too much. The life of the mother is still of paramount importance to most people.

War, Fraud, Lobbyists, (Washington at its worse), the rich getting richer while everyone else suffers, a President seemingly out of touch with reality (as concerns most everything), a President seeminly only self serving, a crazy spiraling debt, Social Security.

But the most important things of all those, I think for most were the WAR, Social Security, and the Debt.

On the good side, most like the new Supreme Court Justices. No child left behind was good in its concept of accountability, and so on.


I am not exagerating when I say my family has sent more than a ton (2000 pounds of stuff) since 9/11.

My brothers and Father are officers and command. One brother is not Active but is Reserve. They have all sorts of people under them.

We target every holiday.


and a personal question for you DemFromCT that you missed a few threads ago.

I have effectively (remotely) cut my landline back on. During elections you have to take a quiz to get in, even only to my answering machine.

Some idiot tried to poll me yesterday at my grandmoms.




How about you?


I think we'll move eventually to online polling. But pollsters should not be on the Do Not Call list. How else would we know what the electorate thinks? i certainly wouldn't want to take the WH's word on that, whoever's there.


so you don't care about my Freedom of Choice.

Isn't that a little two faced?

If people don't mind polls, fine, but why should they be bothered if they do mind them.

Jodi - life sucks and then you die. i don't see this as a freedom issue. No one is selling you anything, and if you have a privacy manager you don't have to answer. What, you want big government to do everything for you? ;-)

OTOH, robocalls without a human can be deep sixed.

Change of topic, more analysis at CQ:

According to exit polling conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International for a combine of broadcast and cable television networks, Democratic candidates were favored by 57 percent of respondents who said they were not affiliated with either major party and who made up 26 percent of voters. The Republicans were favored by 39 percent of independents, which pollsters said was a 9 percentage-point drop for the Republicans from the 2002 elections.

The Democrats dominated among self-described moderates, who made up just less than half of the respondents. The 60 percent to 38 percent Democratic edge among those voters amounted to a 7 percentage-point drop-off for the GOP from 2002. Many of these voters found the Republican message more compelling in 2002 and 2004, especially its emphasis on national security and fighting terrorism in the wake of Sept. 11. The loss of faith in the GOP among many swing voters in the two years since Bush was re-elected — spurred largely by Iraq, Katrina and a series of damaging corruption scandals — contributed to the steep declines in job approval ratings for Bush and the GOP-controlled Congress.


I see the liberal (Democratic) double standard at work. If I had said that first sentence I would have been attacked as a GOP stooge, hard hearted, money grubbing bitch, and indeed I probably will be anyway.

Yes I have the technology, the know how, and the money to filter my calls, and in some instances either on one cell, or both, and on my VOIP landline or some combination have them all forwarded to a answering service depending on where I am and what I am doing.
But most (what you would call the downtrodden masses, and a hard flint or rather a depleted Uranium hard hearted GOP type might call the great unwashed masses) people don't have that capability.
You push your medical/psychological experiments of polling, like some evil Doctor, onto these poor helpless victims (including my grandmom) and claim it is important (for your inquiring mind) work.
Bull! Not more important than choice.
Let the poor and unknowning whether washed or not have choice too DemFromCT. Heed the DON'T CALL LIST.

Anyway, I am off my soap box now.


First as you have noted, or should have, polls come up typically Liberally/Democratically slanted because those groups like to talk to Pollsters usually complaing and whining a lot.
GOP, Conservative and Independent types have less desire to waste time.

Second, usually the Polls are slanted and intelligent people don't like to be compartmentalized into saying things the way the Pollsters state them. Simply because it is inaccurate.

The current situation with the GOP, Conservatives, and the Independents is primarily Bush related. All we need is a new White Knight and we will be right back on board. Karl Rove is "right on."

I don't think McCain is the candidate. I might vote for him anyway depending on who the Democrats run so there is a 70% probability I would vote for him.
I am hoping that McCains health keeps him from running, then we can move on. Maybe form a new organization www.moveongop.org. Or www.newconservatives.org or something.

And Conservatism is not dead by the way, as some Opinion writers hope. I dont' recognize the term MovementConservatism.

I cut my land line and now only have a cell phone that I registered with the Do Not Call list. The silence was bliss.

If a political organization wants my opinion, they can certainly mail me something. God knows everybody else does.

Freedom from minor annoyance is not written into the constitution. Certain things that are individually irritating are necessary for the common good, and the decision that was made about the do not call list is that charity and political calls were compelling enough public interests to be allowed to continue.

If we're going to make that a freedom of choice issue, what's next? I'm oppressed because I have to cross the street at the crosswalk and not just wherever I want?

First as you have noted, or should have, polls come up typically Liberally/Democratically slanted because those groups like to talk to Pollsters usually complaing and whining a lot.
GOP, Conservative and Independent types have less desire to waste time.

I have noted that with exit polls. i don't know that it's true for regular polls.

Second, usually the Polls are slanted and intelligent people don't like to be compartmentalized into saying things the way the Pollsters state them. Simply because it is inaccurate.

They were, actually very accurate this year. No one except Rove was surprised by Tuesday's outcome.

My landline is unlisted. I have no idea what those technological fixes you folks are talking about, but I find that living in a district that votes 80% Democrat plus being unlisted got my political calls to zero, except the ones from the DSCC and DCCC wanting money, and those gave me a chance to vent on issues. But false-flag robocalls are illegal and are designed to suppress voting. They should be penalized heavily enough to discourage a repeat.

Jodi: "Movement conservative" refers to those who joined up in the conservative movement to gain power in the '60s behind Goldwater and then Ronald Reagan and then in the late '80s and '90s, Newt Gingrich. This is to distinguish them from people who just hold conservative positions and/or values in the more generic sense.

Economic populism is much more a natural political philosophy for the Plains States and the Midwest than social conservatism. The bedrock of the Republican party in the Plains States and the Midwest was built on economic populism and self-sufficiency. It's a function of both geography and the make-up of the people who inhabit that geography. In states like Kansas, where Nancy Boyda ran an economic populist campaign against the social conservative Jim Ryun, economic populism struck a chord with the voters. Also, in the case of Jim Ryun, he was well-known in his district for providing lousy constituent services and being out-of-touch, but even given those negatives, in a conservative district with a Republian edge it would have been difficult to unseat him with any other message than economic populism. Voters came home to a place where they're comfortable.

This isn't to say that unease over the War in Iraq didn't play a role in many of the election defeats of the Republican incumbents. It did. The losses suffered by many of these Republican incumbents were more likely a result of a "perfect storm" of issues (government incompetence, government failure, corruption, hypocrisy, etc.) and unease over the direction of the country. Perhaps this is where Karl Rove misread the tea leaves. It's only be being on the ground that one gets a real sense of the mood of the voters. One of the most interesting things I picked up by talking to voters was how far forward they were looking. They had already decided that the G.W. Bush presidency was a failure. They were looking forward to the future while placing a check on a failed Presidency. Democrats have an unusual political opportunity to prove to the American voters that they are the more natural governing party and to reverse their image of the past 20-some years. If Democrats can use their short 2 years to craft an agenda that defines their party as fiscally responsible, pragmatic but tough in foreign policy and working for the working man and woman then the Democratic party may hold onto Congress for the next 10-20 years.

I think a lot of the political consultants fail to distinguish the difference between social conservatism and voters who tend to be conservative on social issues. A majority of voters in the Plains States tend to be more conservative than the rest of the nation on social issues but this does not mean that they are necessarily social conservatives. Social Conservatives are the people who vote for and work for candidates that support an active agenda focused on social issues. In the absence of a clear message that resonates with voters in the more socially conservative areas of the country (Plains States, Midwest, rural areas), the social conservatives become the choice de facto. In the past, their social conservatism resonated with voters even though a lot of the voters who voted for the socially conservative candidate did not intend their vote for enacting a socially conservative agenda. It's like threading a needle and for some reason, Democrats in these areas have had a tough time understanding the difference and have ended up crafting a message that doesn't resonate with these voters. That changed this election cycle. Below the surface, there is great economic angst among the people in these areas. You hear it in the beauty shops of small town America, you hear it in the community rooms, you hear it at church dinners, you hear it at the grocery store. Economic populism appeals to these voters more than social conservative activism because it is a much more natural political philosophy. It speaks to their past and to their future. If economic angst is the symptom, can economic populism provide the cure?

If Jim Webb, Clair McCaskill and Jon Tester are able to influence the agenda and policy considerations of Senate Democrats and the House follows along then I would not be surprised to see a rout of the Republican party in 2008. If Republicans listen to the sirene song of the social conservatives and "so-called movement conservatives" that the party must move even further to the right, then the Republican party will enter a long, twilight period. Likewise, the Democrats will have to be careful to not move too far out in front of voters. If change is to be successful, the groundwork has to be laid first.

The problem with the robocalls is that they seemed to come from the dem; a requirement (which I think is already in place) that the caller identify himself up front is needed: "This is the repub national committee telling you that candidate x wants to cut and run, raise your taxes etc." New laws to govern this shit are essential, and they MUST include jail time for the miscreants. An$X fine after the fact isn't going to cut it; a couple of years in the hoosegow might cause them to think twice.

Well Miss Laura, I intend to ZAP your annoying little fly/mosquito buzzing on my phone system.


There are computer/robo calls designed to tell if you are home, and a live person will pop on in a few seconds. If no one is available, there will be a hangup but now the computer knows you are home and there are may call back in a few minutes when someone is available.

Of course Politicans send out the recorded messages. G****** (I will go to hell if I write that.)

Then there are the folks you have an associations with like your Schools. Allumni calls all the time. They claim they can do that. You can ask them not to, and see how it goes.

And the stores or companies that do business with you, can say that you have authorized them to call because you bought or odered something from them.

The cheap and easiest way to avoid calls is to screen them. I had girl friends who in school never answered their phone. They would check the ID or the voice message. Never pick up directly.

You can do the same with the simplest answering machine. Usually the automatic callers will pick up the info that it is an answering machine and hang up, but some won't. You can buy a device that will mimic that, and stop some of the auto calls, but they are getting smarter (both sides).

Built in call screening/intercept is on some answering machines and/or phones, and variable speed playback is a necessity to check the calls fast.
Remote access good.
You can get multiple voice mail boxes, groups of "invited" callers and multiple outgoing messages messages, the ability to block "anonomous" numbers, out of area, many other groups of calls.

Other phones or the phone company with computers or answering machine boxes will ask the caller to direct his call with a code or a number or tell the caller no solicitation, or politics, or polls. A Robot can't handle that usually, and the people are warned. And some of the devices will check the ID of the call, and on and on.

There are internet based answering machines whether you have VOIP or not.

If you are interested you can inquire on theinterenet or in stores that sell phone/electronic eqipment.

Google "answering machines," "digital answer, " "call screening," "Caller ID manager,"

Here is a typical "non computer device" Should work for most people. Caller ID Manager.


Make sure you know what you are getting!
Check the big Electronics stores for a hands on demo and informative sales pitch. PLUS it is easy to take back if you dont' like it.

To see what your phone enemy is trying to do look at "call management or http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3629/is_199401/ai_n8718182


I will check further if I have the time, but off the top of my head, the "movement Conservative" designation came from the NYt Opinion column in the last week.. I think it was Krugman or Friedman and he said it was a combination of Big Business, Religious Right groups, and somebody else he really didn't like, and he really deplored it and hoped it was dead.


do you really believe that Rove was surprised? I would expect not.

He was just trying to get as many voters out as possible and save a seat or two, not to mention keep the margins slim.


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