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September 28, 2006

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Not much to say by way of consolation. This is a terrible time for America that will have to be undone.

Thanks for this great essay.

The revival of conspicuous Islamic identification in Libya, which you imply is due to its status as an alternative to state corruption, is something I wonder about. My first thought was, will it do the people any good? Then I think about the oil companies and wonder how long it would be until charismatic Islamic leaders in the Falwell or Robertson mould begin to collaborate with those companies. This "clash of civilizations" thing promises to be a great distraction from the rise of what is increasingly an economic monoculture.

England may be better than the US, but I fear only marginally so. Ibrahim might want to visit Ireland to see if it suits him.

MB, your stepson wrote a very poignant essay. He sounds like a great person. I am sure he will come out stronger and wiser for his experience. I feel for him and the Maher Arar's. We have clearly become mad in this country. Ever since 9/11, this is not the America that I grew up in. We have been moving inexorablly towards dicatorship since that fateful day. Bush & Cheney have twisted the fear and vengeance that Americans felt after 9/11 to aggrandize their power. Unfortunately, we did not fight the power grab soon enough.

Today, we have officially arrived in a dictatorship. Do we acquiesce or fight? As Mimikatz pointed out in an earlier thread the mothers of the disappeared dispalyed enormous courage in standing up the Argentinian junta. Will we have the courage to stand up to the current junta? Will the American people stand up on Nov 7th and say we have had enough?

I'm sorry about your stepson, MB, although one can understand his feelings. I'm sorry for my country, too. It is now clear to me that the GOP doesn't plan on losing Congress, and doesn't paln on giving up Congress even if they lose it.

What a bunch of sheep the GOP is. Just march behind their leader, march the country off a cliff. No one takes this seriously. No one thinks it will touch them. The Dems who refused to oppose this abomination are bad, but the authors of it should rot in hell. They are far, far worse because they thought it up and will be the ones to use it.

"Ibrahim" and other Arab-Americans are just the first. But it will spread. Will most Americans even notice?

It passed, 65-34.

Democrats in favor (12) - Carper (Del.), Johnson (S.D.), Landrieu (La.), Lautenberg (N.J.), Lieberman (Conn.), Menendez (N.J), Pryor (Ark.), Rockefeller (W. Va.), Salazar (Co.), Stabenow (Mich.), Nelson (Fla.), Nelson (Neb.)


Rockefeller?????????
Why????????????

Mimikatz

Why??? They have no courage! No allegiance to American values!

They too only believe in the benefits of power. They think this vote will help them in the next election. This is a false victory.

We are in our period of darkness. Someday there will be light again but we cannot acquiesce now. We have to remember the deprivations Martin Luther King, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela suffered. They triumphed in the end. We have to make Nov 7th count. We have to make 2008 count.

Even if the Democrats win this November the House and the Senate, the torture bill will not be reversed because their numbers will not be veto proof.

Osama has won, and he won big. The movie "Red State" http://www.redstatethemovie.com/ explains why the GOP wants torture to be the law of the land.
Watch the youtube clip, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9hBZrkC2ps&eurl=

Actually, i expect parts of it to be tossed out by the courts. Many of the voting senators apparently feel the same.

And even some Republicans who said voted for the bill said they expected the Supreme Court to strike down the legislation because of the habeas corpus provision, ultimately sending the legislation right back to Congress.

“We should have done it right, because we’re going to have to do it again,” said Senator Gordon Smith, a Republican from Oregon, who had voted to strike the habeas corpus provision, yet supported the bill.

Lieberman voted for the bill. Snowe didn't vote. Chafee voted against it.

I, too, have been hoping for a court review.

Then I thought some more about it.

This bill gives Bush absolute power over anyone he decides - for any reason or none at all - is "materially aiding" terrorists.

How much you want to bet that, if a Court decides to nullify this new law, Bush gets on TV and talks about how "activist judges" are materially aiding terrorists by not letting him have the authority to protect America from terrorist plots?

How much you want to bet that the Usual Suspects - on Congress, in the media, in the Religious RIght, and for sure in the punditariat - will rally behind him on that one?

I used to come up with scenarios of how bad things could conceivably get, and then feel reassured because I believed they never, ever could get that bad.

Then Bush and the GOP kept proving me wrong.

I no longer believe anything is beneath or beyond them.

I'm not even looking forward to the election at this point. Bush will have enough time between signing the bill into law and Election Day to play with the marvelous new toy Congress has given him. There's no way on sweet green Gaia he won't want to play with it. Big Time.

The future is very dark, and very short.

I'm just terrified that Stevens will be dead by the time this gets to the Court.

That, and there's a rumor that the bill is written so that nobody will have standing to challenge it. Dunno if that's true or not.

Can you imagine this being upheld by a 5-4, Justice Luttig in the majority? Then it might really all be over.

Webb Ford McCaskill Webb Ford McCaskill Webb Ford McCaskill...

That bad! I was expecting something close to a party-line vote. I don't know what it will take beyond this for Joe Lieberman to show the voters of Connecticut that he is not independent enough. Of course he needs every Republican vote.

I don't mean to be flip. My attitude has been much closer to Mimikatz's post. As I saw random people and had time to think, I felt that a shadow had fallen on them. It was also chilling to think that these random people were probably unaware of what had happened.

Stabenow (Mich.)

Though she is running for re-election, this has to be a major disappointment. To my knowledge, her challenger has not been running that close, and Michigan has the largest Arab-American voter base in the country and a significant Black vote, both of which are probably feeling somewhat uneasy over the recent news.

The historic remedy to unjust laws has been for good people to violate them publically. And take the consequences. It seems likely that one early set of victims of the dictatorship law will be the operators of Islamic charities. I wonder if there are progressive Christian churches that can be encouraged to take up support of those charitable enterprises, thereby sharing in the repression likely to be visited on our Muslim brethren?

Just a thought.

Perhaps the majority voters thought that it was necessary. There are people that don't want to hold a gun, yet others will join the police and others the army in Iraq. Of their own choice by the way.
Others that think it is ok to marry more than one person at a time.

That is what a democracy is all about.

I know that you feel bad and I am sorry for your personal grief. Still I would feel that your stepson should go further to express his convictions and give up his citizenship since he feels so strongly about it. And we wish them luck.

Really he should emigrate to Canada or France perhaps.

Jodi, you talk about diversity of opinion in the first paragraph and say "that is what a democracy is all about." But the post was about a person who is singled out because of his appearance, and what happens when that diversity is threatened because some groups are made to feel unwelcome. When you say "we" wish "them" luck, you're lining up with those who would make others feel unwelcome. Isn't that, by your definition, undermining what "democracy is all about"?

MB, this is one outstanding post! I have only one comment--those who react to this legislative tragedy by saying they won't vote for Democrats in November are responding just as Rove & Co. want them to. Politics is always going to be grubby and full of compromise, but the only practical choice we have is to get Dems. back in power in November. If that happens, we then push for repeal of this hash, and impeachment of our Deciderer (and his VP), and some rational solution to our currently insane foreign policy, etc. etc. It always is about simple choices, one at a time. And it's a very sad thing that Ibrahim is leaving the US.

I think that you can find 1001 people that will say all sorts of things. I think that some people worry too much. I have people single me out because I am a blond woman.

Perhaps you are just confused with the difference between legal freedom and freedom from being exposed to rude or crude people.

But still in this country if you don't like it, you can leave. I am not saying that I want you to. You are saying that.

I've never commented here before, MB, but - best wishes to your stepson. I hope things change in the US before he graduates in the UK - enough so he feels he can come home to his family - and tell him I wish him well in my country. (Oh, and if he's going anywhere near Manchester, this place was good two years ago and hopefully still is.)

Well, Jodi, when you are singled out, hooded, named an enemy combatant and shipped off to some secret prison for an indefinite stay because you're blond, get back to me.

Oh. You won't be able to, will you?

I have an exchange student from Austria staying with me, and this morning I got to explain to her what is going on. I explained how all through my education I learned about the terrible things that were done, out of fear, to Japanese-Americans during WWII. How we always congratulated ourselves that yes, we had screwed up royally, but we have an open, free society where we can discuss and learn from mistakes like that one, and we had learned, and at least we could be certain that such a thing would never happen again. Until yesterday. Guess we didn't learn so much after all.

We are rapidly ceasing to be a Constitutional Republic, becoming instead a Democracy without (or with no meaningful) constitutional protections for individuals. This means that we have mob rule and the oppession of minorities by the majority. It looks like that is just how Jodi likes it (at least as long as she remains in the majority).

I have a good friend who is gay who announced yesterday that he and his partner are moving to Sweden. They won't be the last of the brain drain, and neither will your son.

What we will lose in this country now because educated foreigners or Americans of foreign decent or who are gay or afraid or whatever and decide to not come here, or leave if they are here, is priceless.

America has started down a sad, sad, period of decline. After all we have stood for, it is down to this - a government that insists on giving its president the right to disappear and torture people.

Our dream is becoming very, very dark, indeed.

Meteor Blades.

Whoa! You mean that your stepson had that happen? Being hooded? Being shipped off to some torture chamber in a "unnamed country."

Well he does have recourse. One avenue is a civil suit.

I guess in my hurry I missed that he had had it happen.

I thought that he was just a worrier, even perhaps a bit paranoid, OR perhaps he was trying to be dramatic to state some political feelings.

I hope he is out of prison and his hood now.

Again I wish you all a quiet peaceful life, and hope that you sue the eyes off the bastards. By the way you can't do that in most countries.

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Jodi, I think you missed MB's point.

The point is that "it is a free market of ideas" only works if there is a level playing field. And his point is that as a blonde you are never going to get profiled, and most of the time you won't be searched at airports. That has happened to his son. His son has not been subject to worse, yet, but to understand why that is not much of a comfort all you have do is read about Maher Arar -- see Glenn Greenwald's writeup at:

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/09/here-is-moral-authority-of-us-under.html

Do you really want to be an American who has superior rights and privileges just because you look different from other Americans? Do you want to live in a society where you have a set of rights that will likely not be challenged, but where another group -- made up of categories like MB's son like darker-skinned, foreign born, who travel because they have a parent abroad -- are given fewer rights and once in a while disappeared to secret prisons?

Clearly a lot of people in the US are comfortable with that. Since you're reading the posts at this site, I get the feeling you're not entirely comfortable with it.

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jodi - the point of the whole thread is that the hood and prison are legal now. Should this happen to his son (or anyone else), there will be no wrongdoing on the part of the government. On what grounds should he (or anyone else) sue?

Hi, MB, I will give the essay a perusal, and a Grade.

A friend wrote a childhood becoming a man essay about the weedlot on the corner, charming insights of youth speaking wisdom to adults and questioning Authority.

The Arab world has some neat visions of peace; here is one posted on a Dry Creek Valley tasting room website upon return from the land of Berbers. A lot of "western" thought has Indoeuropean origins.

I am profiled.
I was profiled in school as a bimbo, though I am smarter than most, and can shoot baskets better than most. Including males.
Even taller than most, so I should be a model? And what happens after 30-35?

I am profiled in industry. Despite a resume that I thought looked pretty good. Yeah I got a job very easy out of a hundred offers some not solicited, and made very good money, and had my choice of location, and everyone pampered me, but I didn't get the difficult challenging stuff, just the long looks. I quit 3 jobs that promised a lot, but didn't deliver. Went back to school. Got a technical job. Now I work for a great company of geeks most of whom don't know what sex is except on a screen. I love it. They treat me as an equal and not as a doll and expect me to take turns getting lunch when I am at the office, because they don't go out anymore than they have to. If sex ever comes up it is them asking me how to ask a "real girl" for a date? Or what to do because their girl is mad at them for forgetting they exist. ""FLOWERS"" is always the start. I suggest at least $100. We don't play around at my office.

I travel a lot. The world. I can talk to this place from anywhere and you will never know from where. They have me fixed up.
I see profiling in airports, etc. Most of it fine. Why the hell do they waste time on me and grandmothers. Has there ever been one instance of a young tall professional happy blonde woman or a grandmother trying to blow up a train, a bus, or a plane.
I know the junk response for that statement. Well the militants might recruit a tall professional blonde woman, or a grandmother if they didn't get a full share of scrutiny.
I ask this. Do you think they haven't tried?
It is so much Political Correctness bull.
It spreads the checkers too thin.

I don't want to be blown up because the checkers are probing the bimbo while the guy that looks like a psycho muslim terrorist with the big knapsack and the prayer rug scuttles around in the line trying to get in the order not to be checked.

Get real!

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The sadest part is that he thinks England is better.

Does he know about the brazilian who got 7 bullets because of his looks?.

And they also have troops and abusers in Irak (and cluster bombs in Lebanon).

Why not Canada if he wants and english speaking country?. Their PM sucks but at least they are not in Irak (yes AFG).

He ran towards the US, now he runs away from it.

The US, AND it's policies are the single greatest reason there even is a free England these days. There is a threat, you can't possibly deny that, and it's an Islamic threat.

The US is starting to defend itself. Muslims will obviously have to find their loyalties.

Freedom of expression and Islam are not friends. Cartoons, the Pope, Rushdie are very well known examples of this.

Take into account that the central point of Islam is following Muhamed. Muhamed was a mass-murderer. His followers ... follow. If you don't think that's a problem, then you're an idiot.

Take into account that the central point of Islam is following Muhamed. Muhamed was a mass-murderer. His followers ... follow. If you don't think that's a problem, then you're an idiot.

Exodus 32:26-29.

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Halloween sure is here early!

Yes, I'm sure that the new terrorists that the NIE report concludes the Iraq invasion has generated are going to try to board planes clutching prayer rugs! It makes so much sense to prepare for the last attack.

But beyond that rather obvious problem, there is Jodi's continuing to ignore (for three posts in a row) the basic point of MB's post. Her "profiling" as a "bimbo" leads to minor inconveniences at most (and the post acknowledges that it is pretty much a wash). MB is talking about a well-documented possibility of being disappeared without Constitutional protections, even for citizens. Did you read about Maher Arar? Cause all I heard was crickets in your email.

Oh, and Tim McVeigh only wore that headscarf to parties.

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The hood is for the protection of the guards. Just like hand cuffs or a waist chain, or ankle chains or all of the above. It keeps the really dangerous people under control because if they can see, they can strike out with heads, elbows, knees, etc. at some opportune time.

It also keeps the person from knowing where he is, or from seeing who else is there, and or communicating.

... got that from one of my brothers who knows these things.

Usually the police don't hood in our country, and I don't know what the rules for when to use it are.

MarkC,

I'm dragging right now, and missing a lot.

I have been trying to answer the most important things (as I see them) and I haven't gotten to some.

I did say that if you are innocent, then you can come back later and sue the socks off the government. The government is trying to take the utmost care and err on the side of protection of the majority. This is a necessity like selecting who will get medical treatment in a crisis, which is not our usual way to do business.

If there is "false" imprisonment or whatever they call it, then I suppose, and would expect, and even demand that at least financial payment be made. There was a guy in jail recently who got out after 20 years, because of dna or something. He essentially got 100 dollars a day, because that is what the legislature allowed. About 3/4 million. Now I am not saying that I would like that to happen to me, but mistakes do happen, and they made reparations.

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That is an extraordinary essay, thank you.

I suppose I should thank Jodi too for being a live example of the apologists for torture and racism that have driven your stepson out of the country. (I will note one small part about her innumeracy: it's not that you can "find" 1001 people to say anything; it's that in a random poll of 1001 people nearly half said, well, things like what Jodi is saying. Very, very different.)

I think this essay gives us a good benchmark for when we will have recaptured our country from the forces of darkness: when Ibrahim, and people like him, can come back and feel as free as the rest of us.

I worry it may be a long time coming.

What an excruciating tale! My heart goes out to both your wife & self. I'm afraid nowhere to run/nowhere to hide rings all too true these days. Agamben's State of Exception now enshrined in Law . . .

1001 people

1001 random people

What state?
What city?
Rural?
Urban?
Big town?
Small town?

Is this an estabished group of people that have been polled before and their responses have been correlated with further different events to verify that they are close to a true sampling?

"respondents" ????

How were these people chosen? Or did they choose themselves. Who chose them. Who or what are these people?

How was the question posed? In what atmosphere? During what events?

Polls are nice sometimes for trends. I can quote DemFromCT on that.

Pardon me if I don't pay "too much" attention to polls?

They are good if you are trying to find out what kind of different opinions are out there.

I don't take polls because the questions are typically slanted.

Anyway, you can find 1001 people that will say anything.

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