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August 31, 2006

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» Plamegate Is Not Over from Shining Light In Dark Corners
After all the noise about the bizarre relevation of the non-secret that Armitage was involved in leaking Plame's identity to the press, after a weekend of plaming (sic) blame, The Nation released details about Plame's real job at the CIA. Valerie Wilso... [Read More]

» Plamegate Is Not Over from Shining Light In Dark Corners
After all the noise about the bizarre relevation of the non-secret that Armitage was involved in leaking Plame's identity to the press, after a weekend of plaming (sic) blame, The Nation released details about Plame's real job at the CIA. Valerie Wilso... [Read More]

» Plamegate Is Not Over from Shining Light In Dark Corners
After all the noise about the bizarre relevation of the non-secret that Armitage was involved in leaking Plame's identity to the press, after a weekend of plaming (sic) blame, The Nation released details about Plame's real job at the CIA. Valerie Wilso... [Read More]

» Plamegate Is Not Over from Shining Light In Dark Corners
After all the noise about the bizarre relevation of the non-secret that Armitage was involved in leaking Plame's identity to the press, after a weekend of plaming (sic) blame, The Nation released details about Plame's real job at the CIA. Valerie Wilso... [Read More]

Comments

I'd like to see Rove get on one of the news shows (other than Faux News) and actually field some tough questions - about Plame or any number of other things. Cheney, Rice, Hadley, Boulton(s), Powell, Armitage, even Bush, they've all done interviews... but never Karl.

Traffic report analysis:

Posts tagged "Karl Rove" over the last year

Posts tagged "Armitage" over the last year (Armitage only, more likely than full name)

Hmm. Certainly looks odd.

So does this chart for "Luskin"; you'd think this guy would be doing a happy dance on Faux News, but a dearth of dancing instead.

Of course there's also this chart begging consideration; be sure to look at the 180 day trend, too.

Isn't the first rule of crisis management, "Change the Subject"?

Nice work, EW, as always.

I think that Rove is glad to be out of the soup, and is smart enough to keep shut and let his minions do the talking.

Yes, yes it does. Rove's trumpet has been silent since day one. And since that day one I've wondered what the terms of his 'deal' might be. There are rumors of sealed indictments. Could it be that Rove's deal (if there is one) could also include an agreement from Fitz not to open the idictment before the midterm elections? I mean Rove would certainly try to get something like that on the table, as we all know our crimminal cabal needs Bush protected long enough to do pardons in late '08. Perhaps this is way out there, but my mind keeps coming back to this as a possibility. Is this out of the realm of possibility?

Dismayed

Aside from timing questions (the sealed indictment times better with the Andy Card and Scottie "resignations"), that's one of my points about Novak's blabbing. True, Fitz can't force Novak not to talk about what he said in testimony. But if Rove were really indicted on perjury charges, then Novak would almost certainly be at some risk, too. Novak's blabbiness suggests that, if there's an indictment with Rove's name on it, it's further removed from Novak, perhaps a conspiracy indictment or something.

EW - It does indeed. What ever it may be, Fitz has all he wants from Novak. And it seem some kind of hammer over Rove. But why the 'sit tight' from Fitz if we are even close to correct? When thinking about what did Rove get vs what did Rove give. It occurs to me that not getting prosecuted would be of secondary importance to Rove. (especially if he gave up something big). My feeling is that the number one priority for him and the neo-cons would be protection of these coming elections. (hopefully a strategy that backfires) Perhaps my little brain is in too deep of water here, but if given the choice of taking down Rove before the elections, or taking down Dick's conspiracy after the elections. Certainly Fitz would chose the latter. I would. All this aside. I agree that Armitage is an irrelevant decoy, that the smoking gun is still running around, and that perhaps bigger fish will fry yet.

Let's keep in mind that Novak is in the business of blabbing. He gets paid to say stupid things. He more or less has to keep saying stuff about Plame or he'll lose all credibility (which, I admit, he's in low supply of anyway). Rove gets paid to do keep GWB in power. Motivations are entirely different.

I agree with EW that Rove's silence is curious. (How could I not agree, since I wrote something similar in the comments a day or two ago?)

However, just to play devil's advocate, it occurs to me that Rove and Luskin have less motive to yap about this now that things have changed. Before, when Luskin was talking incessently to reporters, he was spouting off, in essense, talking points for supporters to use in the case of an imminent indictment of his client. Rove probably prodded Luskin to run to VanDeHei and others because politically, he wanted to get his spin in the bloodstream so that partisans could take up his fight immediately in case he were forced out of the White House.

Now that he's apparently in the clear, there's less reason for Luskin to remind everyone that Rove testified 5 times and was in Fitz's crosshairs. Politically, that wouldn't seem to help the White House much to rehash Rove's involvment in Plamegate, esp since the hated Armitage is in the headlines. Therefore, he's staying mum.

Anyways, just a thought.

I think you all underestimate Rove's intelligence. I completely disagree with the presumed answer for: "Now, do you really believe that if Turdblossom were confidant the Plame leak story were over, we wouldn't be hearing from him right now?"

I think Rove has more to lose than gain by blabbing, and he knows it.

And regarding all the innuendo about Cheney's IIPA, sealed indictment, taking Dick down after the elections - please! I'll believe it when I see it. Haven't we been burned enough by stories of imminent indictment of dozens of Admin officials?

Prime point EW.

People seem to forget how much redacted and ex parte information was filed in the investigation and Libby case - it it was all a matter of "oops, Armitage gossiped, oops, Rove confirmed" (when neither of them supposedly knew she was an "operative") coupled with "Armitage told the truth, Libby and Rove got nervous and fibbed, Rove straightened his fibs out in GJ testimony, Libby didn't" I have a hard time believing there would be so much redacted info, so many ex parte filings, statement from both Judges about their opinions on national security and secrecy in light of the info provided to them and putting a reporter in jail for three months.

It's not beyond the realm of all things possible in the world, but I don't see it.

Also interesting, if they (Corn/Isikoff) didn't talk to RoveCo, is the fact that Corn claimed in his HuffPo piece that their book solves the mystery of how Rove got off the hook with a shakey defense. I'll wait that one out too.

The people who don't go after the Special Prosecutor are almost a more interesting set than the ones that do go after him, aren't they? Everyone who is chatty seems pushing for a Libby pardon, but here's Rove and the VP (who will say any nonsense about anyone at any time)not saying a word about how poor Libby just misspoke and it's all Armitage's fault. Rice isn't giving insight into her AF1 performance. Bush, who has had his NIE abuses posted for posterity, has stayed quiet and his direct crew have been very mum.

The press and everyone also sure dropped the "missing 200 emails" really quickly too, didn't they? Never to be resurrected.

The dogs that don't bark in the night; the mosquito you don't hear is the one the bites.

Pete

I'll grant you the sealed indictment or discussion of imminent further indictment.

But it's pretty darn clear that Fitzgerald is heading towards Dick CHeney, via Libby's faltering lie about leaking the NIE. I don't know when--or if--he's going to get there. But Cheney's involvement in this is not at all speculation.

All I want for x-mas is a severed Dick. Sorry, just had to.

A silent Rove is one thing, and I'd agree that that is curious.
I wish I was more convinced that the chatter from the right -- along with the first real hits on Fitz as overstepping his bounds -- betokened good things to come.
But what I don't like is the silence of Murray Waas. I know I'm one impatient chick, but I sure would like to see another National Journal piece coming out, with just a little more info.
Though I have to say that you guys here -- EW, Jeff, Quicksilver, pollyusa, etc. -- are doing as good news analysis as you'll find anywhere in the media.
Thanks again, EW, for providing a forum of sanity in this slough of deceit and denial.

What are the odds that this case is just whitewash?

Upon further consideration, perhaps the reason the dog isn't barking in the night is that the dog has been "beaten" five times for his barking, and threatened with even greater punishment if he barks further.

What if Fitz already has enough material to nail Rover on the same charges as Libby, but he's not going to prosecute him (open any sealed indictments?) if he continues cooperation -- including NOT throwing more sand in Fitz' eyes with any more comments that could distort Fitz' vision?

And what if what we are seeing is a slow and careful manipulation of the Wurlitzer, to get them to trip up in their excess of confidence and hubris? Not by Fitz' office, but by someone in State who has been p*ssed off about being used as a cut-out, someone who wants badly enough for the damned dog to bark that they'll take months and years to tease out that bark?

I wonder what would happen if the heat was turned up on that dog...? He did get put out of his own doghouse and into the corner of the yard for some reason, after all...

If you ask me, I think Jason Leopold's story about Rove and Cheney is more curious today than it was a couple of months ago. He had to have been close to something big and I am more inclined to believe it was accurate. Also, from the comments a couple of days ago, Leopold wasn't the only one who reported about Hadley as the source. I checked the news and so did a London paper (the Times of London? or something like that) and the Daily News wrote something too. Hadley was coy about it if you recall. To his credit, he did mention Armitage. Also, remember last year when Hadley said he was going to be indicted? What's up with that? This all smells so gosh darned weird.

Mary Ann, who were the five (?)"anonymous sources" Jason had that Rove had been indicted?
Didn't Jason promise on a radio show to "out" his own sources about the Rove indictment that never happened, because he flipped, if it didn't turn out to be accurate?
IMO, Jason reads Kos, FDL, emptywheel and some others and then plagiarizes their speculation, their insight into his FakeOut TruthOut stories based on "anonymous sources" that Jason invents.
IMO, Jason's association with progressive blogs and the stories they cover, only hurts the progressive blogs.

Jason also, too frequently imo, comments here at tnh under assumed names. Sometimes he hides behind these assumed names to hurl flagrantly obscene insults at posters, such as emptywheel. Other times he threatens bodily harm at tnh posters, also under an assumed name. Other times he uses these assumed names to praise his own work.

I think that we all are also overestimating Fitz. I like the guy, I think that he is well intentioned, but there are limits to what he can do. If the case really boils down to figuring someone's intent, that is extremely hard to do. In that context if you look at Fitz's baseball analogy, do you think that he is any further today than he was when he made that statement ten months ago?

I think that some of Fitz's methods have been flawed from the beginning. Which led to a major delay in figuring the Rove-Cooper connection. And which led to some basic assumptions about who Novak's sources were, which is surprising given that the FBI suspected Novak of making up a cover story.

And the part about Royce and Phelps being threatened with a subpoena, but the subpoena never materialized is really baffling. If Novak's story is suspect and if Novak said right after his article was published that his sources came to him and gave him the name, why on earth would that not be pursued?

I don't think Libby will crack. I also do not think that Rove has sold out on Libby or Cheney.

I wish I was as optimistic as you all are.

"I also do not think that Rove has sold out on Libby or Cheney."
How do you explain the fact that Rove is not publicizing from every media orifice, starting with Pox News that he has not been indicted?
Remember what he did when Libby was indicted, and he wasn't, why change? Why isn't Luskin leaking to VandeHei at the WaPo anymore?

"How do you explain the fact that Rove is not publicizing from every media orifice, starting with Pox News that he has not been indicted?" - John

If a guilty person narrowly escapes, the tendency of the person would be to thank his stars and try to stay away from scrutiny on that matter.

It is not like Rove is innocent. Why would be risk anything by being personally involved? A smart person would remain silent and let the minions do the talking.

When Rove faced indictment, Luskin had to control the situation. The crisis is over now, and it is a totally different situation.

Rove still faces indictment, if he doesn't cooperate with Fitz. If you have evidence to the contrary, please link to it.

Pete, I suggest you read emptywheel's "Rove's Silence Amid the Din."

Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald told Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, in a short letter delivered Monday afternoon that he "does not anticipate seeking charges" against Rove in the case

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/13/AR2006061300267.html?referrer=email

John - I wouldn't be posting if I hadn't read it.

Pete, "does not anticipate seeking charges" is classic "flip" language, so thanks for making my point for me. Fitz won't indict Rove, as long as Rove "cooperates." This is the point of emptywheel's post, that you said you read.

The WaPo's only source for Fitz's letter is "gold bars" Luskin. Why didn't Luskin release the entire letter to the WaPo? My guess is that it would confirm to the whole world that Rove has flipped.

Pete, this is you at 23:46"I also do not think that Rove has sold out on Libby or Cheney."
Do you have anything to back that up?

The "liberal" WP editorial page bitch-slaps Joe Wilson around today and titles it "End of an Affair."

Excerpt:
"The person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. . . . Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously."

(Who knew that Hitchens or clarice moonlighted as editorial writers at the Post? Thanks, SCLM!)

John - if that is the classic flip language could you point to any mainstream journalist who mentions that. If that is such a common term usage could you link to anything before June 2006 which says that.

It is just my personal opinion that Rove has not sold out on Libby or Cheney.

Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson.

sorry kids it's over, even the WAPO is throwing in the towel

Pete, you want me to ask a mainstream journalist?
Why not someone from the WH? If I got it from Alberto Gonzales, would that be good enough?
Pete, talk to a criminal attorney. There are a bunch over at FDL and they all commented that it sounded like "classic flip language".
You wrote: "When Rove faced indictment, Luskin had to control the situation. The crisis is over now, and it is a totally different situation."
If the "crisis is over," why isn't Rove using every media orifice he knows, as he did when Fitz indicted Scooter?
I see no evidence you have read emptywheel's post.

Pete, just because you ignore my questions, doesn't magically make them disappear. If you have anything beyond your own opinion that Rove did not flip, please by all means link to it.

windansea, Fred Hiatt is a neocon. The fact that Fred, the guy at the WaPo most likely to have written this garbage, doesn't know that Novak said he had THREE sources for his initial outing of Plame does not exonerate anyone.

John - I don't know what you mean by Gonzales, and sure if you have something from Gonzales or the WH then by all means show what you have. Not all journalists are Rove friendly, so it certainly strikes me as strange that all you are able to refer to is some speculation from some bloggers at FDL. If it really was that classic language, then how come nobody in the media has mentioned it?

I have not ignored any question, and I have ask me again and I'll respond. You may not agree with my answer - that is a different story.

You ask - "if the crisis is over why isn't Rove using every media orifice"? Answer - because he does not have to, and he has more to lose by getting personally involved and by blabbing than by clamming up.

so John....will Wilson be on Hardball or Larry King tonight denying this from every orifice?

The folks at the Corner are excitedly talking about the WashPost editorial this morning. Cliff May in recent days has come out of his Plame-cave and links to every Plame story he can. (Yet that same Cliff May, in the last 12 months, has yet to ever once re-iterate how he knew all about Plame prior to Novak's column. Curious, that.)

My favorite is from Byron York: "Other commentators, some of whom pushed the story very hard, now don't want to talk about it." I wonder whom he is referring to? Emptywheel, Firedoglake, David Corn? All are, and have been, writing about it. Indeed, most of the nameless "other commentators" York refers to have already known about Armitage for months, and this Armitage stuff is somewhat old news.

Pete and windansea, if your fantasies had any credibility, Ted Wells, would be filing dismissal charges. Wells knows whether Rove has flipped or not. Last I heard, the trial is still scheduled.

".will Wilson be on Hardball or Larry King tonight denying this from every orifice?"

No but I think Woodweird had a hard time deciding if he wanted
the acerbic, and ever probing Larry King, or the gauntlet of the ever-uncompromising Britt Hume.::Chortle::

Madonna has rejected the role in Jane Bond...The Movie after previously expressing interest....Pierce Brosnan has also bowed out citing "previously unknown commitments"

Rove apparently still employs Mark Corallo (even though some eleven weeks have passed since Corallo declared this "over")...

Hmm. Might Rove face a PR challenge during the Libby trial? DO you think he should sack Corallo now and re-hire him next January, or just keep him on retainer?

As to the notion that Rove ought to call attention to himself by doing a victory lap - kidding? All he could hope to accomplish would be to spark a spate of stories reminding everyone that Rove was Novak's second source and wondering about just what Rove knew, and when he knew it.

But it's pretty darn clear that Fitzgerald is heading towards Dick CHeney, via Libby's faltering lie about leaking the NIE. I don't know when--or if--he's going to get there

I question the verb tense with the use of "is" - do you seriously think Fitzgerald is still gathering evidence? Neither the Times nor the WaPo agree with you.

I think it is pretty darn clear that Fitzgerald *was* aiming at Cheney; at a minimum it is pretty murky as to whether that is ongoing, or just a faded memory.

Maguire has shown some nuance and is cautionary about too much
jubilation at this most recent news. He has learned his bedside manner well from the Master of Loophole logistics, Instapundit.
Some temperence from both sides of the Media Fringe might be the tonic necessary to assuage the next Revolution. But not TOO much comity, please. The left has just learned how to turn on the Killer Instinct, and is behind the learning curve of the right.
Keep the fires lit, or at least the glowing embers.

Keep the fires lit, or at least the glowing embers.

There is really not a shortage of fact-free, full fantasy permanent attack sites; does EW really see that as her niche?

Plame May Still Have A Case

After all that nonsense, it looks like Rove and Libby didn't leak her name. But, considering that the money she was offered for her book was largely based on them doing so, it strikes me that she may still have a case. After all, now she's not going to make nearly as much dough. So maybe she can sue them for not leaking her name?

LOL

no really, y'all would be better served working to elect more democratic senators...like Byrd...guys that put secret holds on bills that promote more transparency in government.

Is, Tom. And that comes from some rumors of ongoing involvement of central witnesses in this trial (and no--it's not who you think it is). And the number of open questions when last we heard substantively from Fitzgerald in May. The investigation is, AFAIK, ongoing, and given the obvious open threads that existed, my guess about where the investigation is going is fairly well-informed. Better informed, than the WaPo and NYT, which have gotten fooled and used on this story repeatedly, and who seem to have missed some of the most important revelations about the court filings. Or need I remind you that I got the approved NIE leaking several weeks before they did, and nine days before any "journalist"? The NIE leaking is one of the key outstanding issues (that we know, as of May, Fitz was still working on). So I'm not surprised the NYT and WaPo are clueless about it--because they've been demonstrably clueless about it before.

Pete

While I'm not sure that Rove flipped, I do think that any time someone releases just one passage from a letter--and a pretty oblique one at that--they're deliberately hiding the rest. Now maybe Rove really DID just get off after Fitz decided he didn't have enough evidence to indict--but there were at least some indications that Libby had some concerns about Rove's testimony, which suggests Rove may well have flipped.

rover ain't out of the woods yet

RICO places a 10 year status of limitation on any crime that meets seven conspiricy criteria

scooter is still indicted, ain't he ???

so we're still dealing with an ongoing criminal investigation

rover learned to keep his mouth shut

what's so surprising or mysterious about that ???

the less you know in a conspiricy trial, the better off you are

wanna bet rover knows that ???

Oh, and Pete, one more bit:

If I'm right, Fitzgerald may well be able to prove intent. I've been arguing for a while that Libby lied when he claimed he was authorized and directed to leak the NIE to Judy on July 8. That story has pretty much crumbled, and whether Fitz intends to build indictments on it before the election or wait until the lie completely crumbles during the trial, I don't know. But if he can prove that to be a lie, and prove that Libby leaked Plame's ID on July 8, then you've already got circumstantial evidence that 1) Libby was concerned enough about leaking Plame's identity he got Presidential approval to do so--and note, he already leaked NIE data to Judy on at least two occasions, so his argument that he needed Presidential approval to do so in this case is absurd, and 2) Dick authorized Libby to leak the identity.

While this may raise questions about whether Dick unilaterally declassified Plame's identity (which would be curious, in that it'd mean he had declassified someone's identity without telling her), it will certainly show that when Libby leaked to Plame, he knew what he was doing.

Thanks for the replies ew. We shall find out.

Methinks there's a sandstorm ablowing.

There is no causal relationship between "a lawyer involved in the case" and "Armitage". A man named "Armitage" may have a lawyer. Or not. To argue a direct causal relationship is to disseminate disinformation.

Is Armitage one of Novak's sources? Yes.
Did Novak have ONLY two sources? No.
Did Novak have "sourceS at the WH," meaning that more than one of his sources was a WH official? Yes.
Was Armitage a 'WH official'? No.
Do we have any evidence that Armitage ever wrote 'talking points' on a copy of a NYT OpEd written by Wilson? No.
Was Scooter Libby a "WH official"? Yes.
Did Scooter ask that a reporter [to whom he revealed Plame's identity] attribute his remarks to "a former Hill staffer"? Yes.
Was Cheney a "WH official"? Yes.
Do we have any evidence that Cheney ever wrote 'talking points' on a copy of a NYT OpEd written by Wilson? Yes.
Was Rove a 'WH official'? Yes.
Did Rove speak with any reporter about Plame's CIA identity? Yes.

Armitage is a red herring.
The press plays into Rove's hands, and makes itself look foolish, by perpetuating the Rovian storyline. Whether Armitage was first, twelfh, or two-hundredth is not the critical issue. Armitage is a distraction.

Do any of the Armitage articles quote Rove directly? No.
Does the innuendo that Armitage is the 'guilty party' disguise and shield the main culprits? Yup.
Would this confusion serve Rove's interests? Yes.
Are these articles disseminated by people known for doing Rove's dirty work in the past? Yes.

Does Rove have a history of gloating in public. Yes.
He also has a history of bugging his own office and then blaming a political opponent for the crime. He has a long, long history of blaming others for crimes for which he is culpable, but for which he is never caught. Is the Plame Investigation consistent with Rove's pattern of behavior? Absolutely.

If the entire contents of Fitz's letter to Rove's atty had revealed Rove as fully innocent, would Rove have gilded the letter and posted on the WH gates? Very likely.

The Hiatt piece in the WaPo is classic Rove: first, blame the victim; second, demean their intentions; third, sabotage their credibility. The WaPo argues that Wilson defamed the poor, unfortunate, hard-working wretches at the WH who were trying so damn hard to locate missing WMD, even after "Mission Accomplished."

I'm reminded of something a friend (who is a cop) once told me. He'd arrested a rapist. He said, "those bastards always claim they're the victims. The first sentence out of their mouths is either, 'she wanted it', or 'she asked for it'." Of all the creeps he had to deal with, he thought rapists were the most self-serving and delusional. I shudder to think how often my friend's comment comes to mind whenever I hear of the latest Rovian mendacity.

EmptyWheel I agree it does speak loud and clear...What- are we to believe the man with an answer for everything, a proven specialist in tailored personal attacks has none for Fitz? The
prosecutor he had to visit sooo many times?
I was in DC in May and I saw the msm staked out by the courthouse -they expected it too so C'mon- who we gonna believe-Fitz with his no comment (we know Sealed v Sealed certainly does exist and he would most likely be gagged anyway) or proven liars?
Besides, Rove's attorney has lied to the press before -for at least one other client.

I think all of you are forgetting that Rove has a difficult midterm election coming up, and there are many, many more pressing problems for the Republicans.

Or in other words - Hey give it up guys, Karl has a job that is keeping him busy. He doesn't have time to entertain you right now.

jodi

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